Hello. So we're absolutely yeah. Feels an exciting This is a segment on that first moment of what to do when you're first diagnosed with ADHD. And I've got two extraordinary and wonderful ADHD coaches, Ithalia Johnson and Kaye Heyes. And without further ado, I'm gonna bring them in. Hello.

Hi. Hi, Henry. Hi, It's Henry. Great to have you here.

Thank you for for doing this and for sharing your knowledge and expertise. This is an important segment because this is you know, everyone's been here. You got first diagnosed. What the hell do you do now? And in your coaching, this is the question to you. What do you what do you tell them? And if we if we start with Kaye?

Oh, Henry, I can really remember my own journey. I think what's really important is almost having a landing space. So I know what I do when people have first got that diagnosis, especially as it's all very medicalized and you've been told all the things that you can't do. So if you've got your report in front of you, it's very much a pathology. It's all the deficits of things that you can't do. So I really see my role as a coach almost holding, like, a sacred space for somebody to kind of land and process some of that. And, and I do include psychoeducation and also talk about language. But I think that initial session is really about that person.

Really, like, processing their own unique journey, how they've got here and kind of hosting almost it's almost like a cocoon, I think of it, in in terms of somebody they've been late diagnosed. It's almost like they've had parts of themselves cut off. And I really see this as the first step in their journey back to remembering who they are in their wholeness. So it almost feels like a like a spirit tool, for want of a better word, like very sacred moment. And I think, you know, really welcoming that ADHD and kind of stepping into that is a really hugely important journey, and it's a real honor to be alongside somebody when they have that, you know, that I have that diagnosis.

Yeah. And and, Ithalia, what about what about you? What what do you say when they they come to that first session?

Yeah. I think, Kaye, I just love how you describe that, you know, landing point, that welcoming and warm space so that they can feel normalized even though in in this world, you know, there is no normal. But what I really like to focus on when I'm with a client who's just got their diagnosis is about redefining and articulating strengths. It's so important to be able to encourage an adult with ADHD to to articulate what are all their strengths. And I find that a lot of the time, this is a bit of a blank pause when I ask that. You know, do you know your strengths? And I use the via tool, which is a free survey, and it's a wonderful tool to be able to for for an individual to.

To process to to answer that survey in their own time. And I usually ask them to do that before they come to the session so that we can celebrate and acknowledge where those strengths are presenting in their life and where they are, you know, not in balance. And that really sets the scene to where we're going to go on our journey together as a coach and a client. So and I I love to do that.

It's and and for people wanting to get the VIA tool, how do I spell VIA? Like, am I able to Google it and figure it out? Yeah. It's a free tool via via.

And if you just put via survey, you can you can access that for free, and you can download your PDF, print it out, put it on your wall if you're what you know, if you like to see those things. I really like to have that, you know, near to me so that can remind myself, am I working within my strengths? Where are they out of balance?

As now as a conference, one of the things we've done is we had said there was a segment on positivity, the positive aspects of ADHD, because it is so important. I think you're both I I could see Kaye nodding when, Ithalia, you were talking about the issue of people having just focused on the negatives. To go through the diagnostic process, as we know the diagnosis is only given if it's having a debilitating impact on your life. So the focus is all of the problems, all of the issues.

You you've only gone you know, talk a lot, you know, particularly when we're talking in the media, people, you know, people aren't going for an ADHD assessment because they're worried well. They're not going because they're like, oh, you know, I'd just like to know this about me. Like, it'll make me happier to just to know. Like, no. They're going because they're in trouble. Like, there are really significant problems in their life, and they're going because they they they recognize they they need help, that their life could be very different in a in a positive way. So when you start to nudge them towards thinking about the positive aspects of their ADHD, like, particularly when they're in that site abyss of this this is tough.

What do you what do you say to them, starting with Ithalia?

Well, I really find being able to do that survey before we have the conversation. I find that when I first have that, you know, open up our coaching session, I can acknowledge where their strengths are as they're talking or as they're explaining a win for the day. I always start the session with tell me a win for the day because we know if the mind is in the negative mindset, then a lot of the conversation can keep going back to that rather than let's try and find something that is positive that you're doing that maybe not celebrating or acknowledging. It's not as it doesn't it's not usually as easy as that. It takes a lot of time to keep on reminding the the client to do that. And, also.

It helps me to implement some information around, around, like, the neuroscience of the brain, you know, how our minds are working and also to acknowledge ADHD is this term that is used, but it's very different for each individual. And just to talk about how, you know, our dopamine is, you know, how we it's it's low in our brains and how our that kind of that brain chemical responsible for motivation rewards is processed very differently. So it helps us. So that's why a lot of us are very creative and can respond to a problem with 10 different solutions. So it also allows me to invite some of that neuroscience information so that they can start to learn more about their brain.

And see it as a factual thing rather than think it's just about them not having not being great, not being brilliant.

Yeah. What is is the key the key science that they you think they should know? Just about how, like, dopamine is processed. I think.

I find that when clients are initially diagnosed, They've been through a whole journey of feeling like the light bulb moment, of feeling overwhelmed, of feeling down, of feeling like they're not themselves, of feeling a bit like a fraud. There's a whole array of emotions that that client has experienced. And I feel like just bringing in the this information around, you know, how our brains are lacking of dopamine, and so we're always looking for something to feed that. And I know, you know, I I surround myself with the things that keep me happy, my favorite drink, you know, whatever whatever it may be, candles and all those things. And also just to acknowledge that that's okay to have those things. We don't have to be like neurotypical.

Individuals that we may work with, live with. No. And it's allowing us to know how does that lack of dopamine affect our brains. So even though someone may be diagnosed, some of them may not be medicated and some may be. So it's all very different to how, you know, their brains are all working at that time or are, you know, responding to their life.

Thank you. It's Kaye, do you talk to the neuroscience talk? Like, do you do talk about, like, to what's going on in the brain?

Yeah. And I love the fact that you use the VIA survey. It's Helio. It's one of my favorite favorite, like, ways into coaching as well because as you say, very often when we've had ADHD in a lifetime of not knowing and we've been told all these negative messages, actually starting with those strengths and things that they're proud of is it just opens a whole different conversation, doesn't it? Just change everything. And you can really see those light bulb moments of like, oh, yeah. I've got a good sense of humor or, yeah. I am really creative and, it it's really amazing.

And, you know, I mean, there is neuroscience in that as well, Henry. So, you know, for most of us, you know, there's a biologic we're biologically wired as human beings in terms of evolution to have that negative bias because we're you know, if you think back to years ago, we'd have been constantly horizon scanning for danger, you know, predators and all of that. And so our brains are still wired in that way. So when I talk with clients about it, I talk about it's almost like we have this five lane American superhighway that's like, you know, it's straight to the negative. And our more positive way of thinking might actually be more like a bit of an undergrowth through, like, some woods that are overgrown with brambles.

And it's kind of like that the more you go down that path and you clear the brambles, the more it becomes easier, becomes much more natural. I mean, I think the defaults will probably always be negative because that's the way that we're hardwired. But you can make that positive pathway much more. And, you know, I do talk about neuroplasticity. I mean, I'm not a neuroscientist. I don't know a lot of the jargon, but I know enough to to talk about we can actually develop new neurons and and the neurons, you know, that what what we why it's what is it? What wires what fires together wires together? That's how it goes, isn't it? So that when we're when we're doing these pathways, we're actually making new pathways.

That then get the myelin sheath on them and they almost insulate them then. So we can create these new pathways, which is really exciting to hear about. And I love that you bring dopamine into it as well, Ithalia. And, you know, those neurotransmitters, we know that dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin are all really important, and we we don't use them in the same way that maybe people who've got differently wide brains than us might use. So it's really important just to give people I tend to give people a bit of a flavor of it. And then for many of them, if they suddenly get that interest, because we've got these interest wide brains as well. Right? They'll go they'll go off and they'll go off researching.

And I think that's really important to give them that initial almost like pathway and bit of a taste of it, and then they can go off and and find their own stuff out. And and in a way, that's really empowering for them as well for them to find out about their brains and what works. So I yeah. I quite often share podcasts and, TED talks, things like that for people who were they they can go and find out and follow their curiosity, which is another VIA strength that's very often high with those ADHDers to go off and find their own thing there.

I think, yeah, I think something that you both spoken to, which is really wonderful, is that there's the diff it's different approaches for different people. And I think, Kaye, you talked to, you know, that some people will go grab on the neuroscience and use that. That'll be the the lever that they that they enjoy to to help themselves. And Ithalia, you talked about how ADHD is is different for each individual. And one of the things we try and talk to is is there used to be a real line of, like, everyone's ADHD is different. And I've really tried to move away from that as as a conversation just because then what are we all doing together? Like, what links us? And particularly when we've got people who.

Consider ADHD to be a belief system or one that they don't believe in, not even recognizing our condition. If we say it's all different, well, then, like, well, is it a thing then? And so the way I've tried to change it is just to say we all we're all unique individuals plus ADHD. Mhmm. And that then gives us the conversation for that we're different, but lands the point of difference in our personal uniqueness rather than the condition, is, you know, clearly categorized in various psychiatric terms and has a clear description, a clear diagnosis path. You know, we all have commonalities. What brings us all here today and what we why we learn. The I thought that you talked about, like, the.

Light bulb moment and sort of fucking recognizing you've got ADHD. And I think both talked about the emotions of that first diagnosis. Like, what are the core emotions you see, like, when the people are processing? Okay. Do you wanna go first?

Oh, I can almost relate this in real time because actually, for me, when I first realized I needed to sit with that and process that for a couple of years, I really felt like it was I mean, I was 51 when I realized.

I was 42, and honestly, you did. Like, it's it sounds silly, but it definitely took years to properly. And I told no one. I mean I told no one but the very absolutely and the only when I actually finally told people, including my parents, was when I founded the charity. I was like, well, that was gonna be fault. I should probably go talk to people. I got so used to telling no one. Yeah. That's a great way to share it, isn't it?

Wow.

Yeah. Old or go home.

Yeah. Wow. I I can I can really relate to that? I mean, I was I I I count myself so fortunate that the time I realized I was homeschooling till children, it was during COVID, like many of us during COVID. And and I was really trying to figure out what was going on with my daughter. So my son already had an autism diagnosis, and I was kind of looking at that for her and thinking, oh, it's not quite right. And then I looked at ADHD and just I'm sure so many listeners will be able to relate to this, that kind of, oh my god. You know, when you're looking down how it presents, especially in women and how it shows up very differently, like, oh my god. But at the time I was studying, I was doing a master's in positive psychology and coaching.

And I was really embedded in that whole positive language. And we were just doing about VA strengths actually at the time. And when I looked at all the ADHD language, it was so negative, and it really struck me. And, you know, and and everything I was looking at was the things about, like, how to manage your symptoms and coping techniques, whereas the language of positive psychology was all about thriving and flourishing. And I was like, what's going on here? You know? So I was really I'm really grateful that I was kind of in that world at the time I realized. So I was able to kind of almost process it myself and use my own language.

And I really feel like language and linguistics and how we do that inner talk and talk to other people about our ADHD is so important because it's very easy to get caught in that trap of talking about symptoms and coping strategies. And it's like, no. We have we we deserve to thrive and flourish, you know, regardless of anything else. So so I kind of waited until after my master's degree, and I I thought I wanna complete this and feel like I'm really fully in that positive psychology community, you know, and having done some of the research before I kind of go down that pathway. So it's actually been quite recent. I was 53 when I got my diagnosis. It was only earlier this year. And then my daughter was diagnosed autistic yesterday.

So where really I feel like it's really fresh. So just even the questions in the assessment and the diagnosis was was very negative based, all the things that you struggle with, you know, when comparing it to your peers, You know? And it's kind of like, no. It's it's yeah. It's so important that we are able to choose our own words and language. I feel really passionately about that.

It says and it's such was reflecting as I saw both of your coaching folks' names, like your positivity ADHD k, it's out of your joyful minds ADHD coaching. And it shows both of your focus focus points being on that change of into positivity, into joyfulness. I have to say, I I do think one of the most awful bequests that I see commonly in ADHD, sadly, in myself too, is a negative internal voice. Yeah. And a lot of that's from, you know, when you're not diagnosed, people are going, oh, you should try this. Have you tried a list? Oh, no. Don't wanna know. Okay. Yeah. And and those and they don't work. And it just goes on this pile of stuff that's just not being.

Worked for you, not and and particularly when it's a boss or a teacher or a professor or like someone above who says you should do this, and then you fail it and they go, well, you clearly just don't care. Like, that that inference of of you that you don't care Yeah. Being being so so wrong. The emotions I talked to when I like first saw it, like I think for many people, myself included, is that there's a mix of just a piece of well, that makes sense. Like, that's just and some anger on how hard the path has been and some joy. Joy for how it can be from now. So talking of joyful minds. Yeah. Did you see that? That was an incredible slide.

Brilliant. I know. I.

I think what it really makes me think about when I'm with a client is, you know, everything can feel so big. We we talked about, you know, the other perspectives people have on people with ADHD. There's the biggest structures that we live within. You know, unfortunately, we live in a world that is not equitable. So, you know, there's having ADHD and then that a lot of my clients go into this kind of, you know, building on from their personal ADHD issue, then it's going into wanting to fight the system and going on and on and then how it affects macro, systems and so on. And I like to bring it back to the joy. So like you just said, how can we do things in a simple step by step process.

So it doesn't feel too big? So a lot of the things that you just talked about then, Kaye, around, you know, self limiting beliefs that people have that when they talk about especially I was late diagnosed myself in my early forties. And what did that mean? You know, it made me feel like I wasn't good enough. What was I doing? What can I even do anything? Am I capable of things? And it it kind of because of the systems that we and the world we live in, unfortunately, that is sometimes mirrored from people that we work with and people that we're, you know, where that make things, that make decisions in our world. So I like to bring it back to how can we find some joy in.

Who we are. And, you know, like you mentioned before, ADHD is different for all of us, but it it does affect us. There are some common commonalities in that, but the impact of how ADHD affects each individual is different. So, again, it's looking at how do we how do I find joy? And people, you know, I'm oh, you can tell that my practice is centered around joy. But some people that might have another word like love or justice, whatever it whatever it is for them, and it's finding that language that they can utilize for themselves to create a schedule and a plan forward for making the changes that they want to make. And I think that one of the things that I do talk to my clients about is it wouldn't be easy. Change is challenging.

You know, because an ADHD is not easy. This whole thing, you know, there's lots of thing. ADHD is your superpower, la la la. And I was I think I I I hooked onto that at first, and I was like, no. This is tough. This is tough. I feel lousy. I feel like I'm on a motor. So it's acknowledging some of those challenges as well, but knowing that we can find the joy in each day.

When we're talking about ADHD and a superpower, we just say yes, but let's talk about the kryptonite. And I think by then talking about the kryptonite, we're starting to have a positive conversation. What's stopping me being super? And and that's really, really positive. Right. People watching this at home, they've obviously I think we've talked through, like, particularly, like, moving away from the negative into that positive. I Just talked on that notion of joy of how the world can now be. So you've also talked about starting to get some base knowledge to talk about not understanding what the ADHD is in doing in your brain. Like, how are you fundamentally different, chemically different from others.

So what should they do now? So, like, if they're sitting at home, what's next? Who wants to take it first?

I suppose it kind of depends where they are now. Right? You know, it's so it's so individual and unique. I mean, I think one of the one of the most important things is to kind of find your community, which is one of the reasons I've worked with you, Henry, because what ADHD UK offers in terms of those support groups, that is Yeah.

Which you which you do, and thank you for that. And I tell you, we'll be getting novel shortly. The the they are wonderful. And and actually one of the things I recommend certainly is is to go to support groups even if you're just gonna lurk and listen my camera off. Because all of us, one of the key things you're trying to work out is where's the line between me and my ADHD? What's something I'm doing that's driven by unique, unique me? What's something I'm doing that's driven by the fact I have ADHD? And, you know, for me, that is a mountain. It's a molehill for others. And certainly, like, well, the entire charity is essentially just a therapy group for Henry. Like, it's certainly.

Well, obviously, when that validation you get, right, from hearing somebody else. So you could turn up to one of those support groups. I always say to people, you don't need your camera on. Just come. You don't need to you don't even need And free they're free, but donate if you can. Everything we do is a charity. But to hear other people describe their experience and you suddenly go, oh my goodness. I thought it was just me. That is hugely, hugely powerful beyond words. You know? And I It is. It changes your your way of thinking. It absolutely does. So I'm in an in person support group. We've got our fifth meeting this evening. So I've only been running it for five months. I know.

The third session, I had an email from somebody really desperate beforehand saying, I've not actually left my house in two years, but I really wanna come to your meetup. So we arranged to meet up just before the session. I said, look. If you wanna stay, you can. And she came. She absolutely she at the end of it, was hugging me. The first person who walked through the door after her fitted her blinds in her house, so that you to her. And he's like, oh my goodness. I didn't know you had ADHD. I didn't know you had and that that, you know, that real humanness of it all.

And then she came the following week, and now she's my greatest supporter. She's out telling all her friends about it, and it's been honestly just that one thing. Just that her being brave enough and vulnerable enough to email me, and it's that's the front door, and it's been life changing. You know? And I think just the power of community is huge. I love that. Kaye, I think yeah. Sorry, Henry. Can I jump in? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

I I set up I'm going on now. A group I set up a group called ADHD Queens, and it was specifically for women who from the African diaspora who also live with ADHD or look after someone with ADHD because they were I was I my other my other love is movement, dance, and yoga. And through those projects, I was having conversations. And then as I was training as a coach, I was acknowledging some of these similarities and some of these conversations. So I set up this group, and it was just wonderful just to see, like you like you say, that the shoulders relax for a moment just to be able to be accepted, not judged, to have a cuppa, and speak with truth and to find some resolve from other people. I find it's really wonderful as a way of the.

It it's a collective coaching session because everyone has some information to share, and I think it is really important. There are lots of groups out there, and I it sounds like ADHD UK is a great place to start. And if you are, you know, in the Liverpool region, then, you know, get in touch. But I think it's just wonderful in order to to be able to create a space where people can feel fully accepted.

Yes. It's so huge, isn't it? It's so huge. Mhmm. Not knowing who you are, and then suddenly you find people who, you know, maybe jump in like, you know, like we did just then. You know, I I often say to people, it's almost like not what we talk about in those meetups. It's the how we talk. So we're not going away ruminating about, oh, did I say too much? Did I overshare? Did I do this? Did I do that? That we often do in those you know, if we go down to the to a bar or a cafe, whatever. It's it's having that space where we can accept each other in all that ADHD, you know, that excitement about wanting to join in and things like that.

Yeah. So I love that you're doing that, Ithalia, in in Liverpool. So I'll have to think about some of my clients and whether they're that way. Yeah. Well, so, again, I'm East Kent. So I'm dealing East Kent. So we've got we've got the country covered between us, I think. We're not in between.

And Yeah. As a charity, we actually are starting to build out in person support groups because we were born in the pandemic. We actually wanted to take advantage of of that and create groups based on type of person and and and need. So that with that ranges now from of ADHD in women groups, ADHD in men. We've got ADHD in speaking Polish. We've got a Polish language group. We've got ADHD in parents. We've got ADHD in learning a musical instrument. Like, that's been a real focus for us and helping people exactly what you were both talking about, you know, find your tribe, be in a safe space, and have people who you can be open with and talk about your own challenges and not feel that you're going to get attacked or things.

And you know? Yeah. I think the beauty the beauty about having ADHD, it's that radar, isn't it?

I know wherever I go, I know I'm going to gravitate to the person with ADHD. Yeah. And we have a conversation. For sure. You know, it's the it's the openness. It's the empathy. It's the wanting to be kind and considerate to others and wanting to talk probably.

And also those deeper connections. Right? It's like not small talk. Like, let's talk about the meaningful stuff in life. You know? Let's not talk weather. It's it's it's that sense as well, isn't it? We can kind of make immediate friends because have this ability to connect with other people at a really deep level very quickly. So, yeah, like I say, even though we've only met like, tonight will be our fifth time. Already those connections have been forced and people have met up, and it's been really amazing. So, yeah, to anyone, you know, to any coaches that are listening to this as well, I'd really, really encourage people if they're thinking about setting up. You know?

Yeah. Do you and and come and talk to us because we're now starting them under the ADHD UK brand and push them out. And I think one of the things we've been doing is creating that sort of structure and and what helps make a successful group and make it last. And looking for some hints and tips from you in both in the future. It's an important think we've just talked to that talking to people and having that safe space and learning from each other being being critical. How do you teach people to be kind to themselves? They've often spent a long time with a, you know, weight on their back and beating themselves up for their failures. How do you how do you help them with that?

Yeah. I think it's mirroring them. You know, you are seeing them through an ADHD lens, which they may not have actually had that opportunity of experiencing so far. They might have had the harsh you know, even, you know, it Yeah. Even if you go through the psychiatrist, you know, it's not necessarily with the love and empathy that you need. It's understanding everything that they're going through and knowing that the challenges that just to get up in the morning, get if you've got children, getting your children to school on time, that is a massive win. I am Yeah. It is. My coffee in a cup when I do that. I'm like, whoo. Yeah. You know? So it's acknowledging that that was an achievement. That was a fantastic.

And during the coaching session, it's stopping and pausing and making time for that celebration and say, I hear that was really challenging. I can see how challenged that was. And also then acknowledging and quest giving questions so that they know they don't always have to have that extreme level of challenge all the time. And that's what we're doing in coaching to make your life easier and happier and more joyful on your challenging journey. So, yeah, for me, it's definitely having that empathy mirroring and taking time just to acknowledge what they're going through.

Yeah. Gosh. Yeah. And I love your description of of what mornings can be like when you have ADHD. I always used to think I had, you know, Lord of the Rings. I used feel like I've done the whole Lord of the Rings cycle every time I made it to work. I have to having dropped the kids off at nursery and like, oh my god. You know? And I think really acknowledging that, it is it's much more difficult for us to be in the world with our super sensitive nervous systems and, you know, the executive functioning challenges we have. So, yeah, to hear that and actually to recognize how like, all those different decisions you have to make in that process.

All that, you know, emotional regulation you have to do, you have to kind of keep calm and co regulate your kids while you're getting them to school and and sometimes even just breaking it down and saying, oh, in that, you know, in that moment, that's what you were doing. And then they can go, oh my goodness. Yes. I was. I was co regulating myself and, like, managing to keep calm while, you know, and actually really acknowledging that every every moment of that, like, of that school run actually takes so much from us in terms of emotional regulation and remembering. I mean, the memory, like, remembering that they've got I don't know. It's World Book Day or PE day or whatever it is. It's it's yeah. Absolutely. I love that. It's just.

Really accepting that, you know, there's extra challenges for us in even what are considered simple things, like packing for holidays, for example. You know? So yeah. There you go. Eye rolls. Because it's about making decisions about the now and not it's about the not now. You know? And people say, well, I've just got to pack. And in that just, there's so much under there. So, yeah, I can really relate to what you're saying about that whole Lord of the Rings cycle. Yeah. Just to do what what would appear on first surface to be a simple task. And, oh my goodness, that importance of pausing as well to really acknowledge that. And, yeah, you say like you say, people people just kind of get on to the next thing, but taking the time.

Within a coaching session to really pause and, my goodness, I was doing all of that in that seemingly simple activity. You know?

Mhmm. Yeah. And and something you both you're talking to the coaching, and I think it's worth raising that one of the real powers of coaching, and both of actually talked to at the very, very start where you talked about people being unique, is that it is one to one working with someone on your personal challenges and creating that sort of bespoke custom grouping of things that that that make that make that difference. It is worth saying that for people in work, there's access to work, which is a government grant available. It's also available if you're an entrepreneur. If you're starting up your own enterprise, long as you can prove you can have an income, I think it's over £5,000.

Then you've got that available. And and Access to Work aims to support people with disabilities like ADHD to succeed in the workplace, level the playing field. And very, very commonly coaching is given. And as you will have experienced, I've seen that it's the the you know, that can have an absolute life changing aspect.

Right. Going to know, we talked also about the memory problem. So for many with ADHD, the fact they've got the busy brain means you can't hold the thought for long enough to become a memory, and it can be challenging to to put it back. And so one of the best things to do with someone with ADHD is to put them on the spot and say Uh-huh. Things like, what do you have? I'm not asking this. Like, what do you have for breakfast? You're like, I don't even remember what breakfast is right now. I don't know. Quite that bad. But worse than that, what did you do yesterday? You're like, so right. I want people to one of the takeaways to be, because it is important, is that you're different. You've got ADHD.

You are different. The solutions that are gonna work for you may well be very different from the solutions that work for others. I'm gonna queue up the question. I'm gonna give an example to give you, like, a little bit of room for to to think. But I suppose and the question is, like, in terms of emphasizing that point that we're different, like, you think of an example where you've come up with an individual with ADHD has a very different solution that really does work. And you can see why in the grounding of ADHD, why it does, like why it's suitable. In my own life, have two both in the same vein, which is around alarms. So an alert for me, it would go ping, and, you know, and I forget about it almost instantly. And.

And if I'm to stay present with it, I I literally have to say it in my head, you're doing this, you're doing this, you're doing this, you must do this, don't stop it. Like, if I've got something I need to to do, like, I'll often grab a thing and I won't allow myself to put it down. And so the I fight for being on time for this kind of thing. I set my alarm for three minutes before, and it's a full alarm. Now the the false advice, the bad advice I get is, okay. You're off and running late. Have you considered setting your alarm earlier? And it fails to understand the fundamental difference. Their assumption is you're not giving enough time between a and b or whatever, but between that point to that point to get whatever it is you need done.

Or to travel how far it is, which can also be a problem. But the reality is I look at that. It's gone off ten minutes before, and I go, oh, I've got a bit of time. I should do something. And I start to do it, and then I'm lost in it, and now I'm late. So if I set my alarm earlier, let's say twenty minutes, all I've got now is more time to get lost in something and now be late. It doesn't help me at all. Whereas alarm that says, right. You've got three minutes. You've no time to do anything except turn on your camera and be there. I can't get lost. I'm there. It's worked. You talked about going in the morning. Same problem. Right? Like, if something pings and you're like, okay. I've got to leave with the kids and it stops.

So we have an Alexa. We have a playlist that that that starts to run that I've that I've set up. And as soon as the music plays, we know it's time to be thinking about going. And because it keeps playing, it doesn't disappear. Like, if I could hear music, I know we are on the out. I used to have it set up that it has a siren that goes off, and if you hear the siren, it's time to leave. And what happened was sometimes the music would get turned off because sometimes that happens, and then I'd be lost, and I didn't have the emergency catch, I thought. So now I have two playlists. One is entirely made of sirens, and it goes off ten minutes after the first. But that persistence.

So you can see with that alarm, because of the ADHD fallibility of focus, I've got two different solutions. One is creating immediacy, and the other is creating persistence. And but the solution okay. So who wants to go? I've wolf or I've you have plenty of time.

I love that. I just love and, also, I think there's that thing isn't there about so system might work for a little while, and then you need, like, to to add something different to it to make it more interesting for your brain again, for your brain to recognize it. So, yeah, I love that Henry. Yeah. Thank you. Although, to be fair on that one, like, they are established now for years, so they they definitely.

And I don't I think actually the piece of learning I have had is to go to recognize that's working and not to change it, not to go and and go, actually, yeah, so I'm a bit bored with those songs, but what it like that part I'm sucking up because this works. I think if you've got to change it I mean, I met someone whose entire to do system was that every roughly ten weeks, they started a new to do system. And in doing so, completely tidied the old one, wrapped up, worked out all their major goals, put it all organized in. It only became shambolic after about week nine. They could live with it until that. And then but they they had this epiphany that their system was actually to revolutionize their.

And it it was a big relief to them because they've always been looking for the perfect system and trying new ones and new ones and new ones. And instead they could actually just cycle through different ones, which actually gave them the novelty that you just talked about that for them was important. Okay. I I love that.

Because just what you said, Kaye, we my great trainer called it resparkalizing. Yeah. How to resparkalize something because the brain will get bored of that system and be like, no. I don't like it or it's not. So I like that idea that Henry just talks about them with every 10. They I mean, I wish I had the energy to do that, but I don't. And I don't you know? Because we're all we all have different things that make us tick. So it's like, how do you change that system to make it interesting again so that it works? Like, the first alarm may work the first day because it's like a novelty. Oh, yes. I'm up. This is great. I'm going there. But I also like what you said then, Henry, is, like, sometimes.

There's nothing more than I love when someone cancels a meeting on me or a session. I'm like, oh, I realized that I needed that breath and that stillness that wasn't scheduled in for my day. And a lot of the time, it's by accidents that can happen when we want to fill our days with lots of activity and things and to dos and so on. But this is what I I really just like the the via strength survey that I talk about, I really talk about what are my clients movement schedule? How do they physic how are they physically active? What are they doing to get their bodies pumping? And I feel like that helps to, one, regulate our mind. It helps to give us that it gets rid of all that. It get rid of some of the energy and helps us to regulate.

Ready for a day. And I really say, you know, it can happen whatever part of the day, but I I feel like that's an add on. I say add on. It's kind of like I feel like it's one of life's rituals that I get by clients to really think about where does that fit in because it will help with these different systems that we are putting in place to get us to places on time, to have us prepared in time, to make us feel like we're giving our best. And that I talk about that, you know, how do we help our clients become their bet them best selves so that they can feel like they can shine.

I love that as well as hope that you talked about rituals and not habits. I think there's a it's only a word difference. Right? But it's so the actual energy behind the word ritual and habit, they're so completely different. And, yeah, I often talk to clients about, like, shall we establish a ritual and then you can, like, honor that commitment that you've made to yourself rather than I need to set up this new habit. It's very different. It's quite nuanced. And in a way, kind of almost, like, brings your whole self and your whole body to that because you've created a little ritual.

As you know, Henry, my ritual is very often going for a sea swim in the morning. And it's people say to me, like, how do you do that? How do you do that habit? But for me, it's so much it's so much more than a habit. It's it is a real ritual, like, you know, communing with nature and other people. And on the days where the weather means I can't swim or if I've got a cold or something, I find it so much harder to get into the shower than to actually get ready and go for a swim. It's it's and and it just really sets that intention for the whole day. So I think, you know, in terms of productivity advice that's out there and amazing, the idea of eat eat the frog first, I think is so designed for ADHD. Because.

For us, we need it's almost like we need some positive emotion. We need something that gives us that dopamine spark and the oxytocin and serotonin to kind of let then enable us to motivate ourselves to to kind of do the rest of our day. I that advice that that is out there. And I I went on training when I when I was at employment, and it was all about, yeah, eat the fuck first. That really doesn't work for me. Yeah.

Well, then we and now you've actually you may have got ahead of me. So the we need to wrap up, sadly. I I thought that was a brilliant pickup on the ritual versus habit. And because as ADHD, it's like like, we can have habits for years and then. Like, I find that very common. And and I think changing it into having that different emphasis is is is nice. Yeah. Because I don't find habits a reliable thing when people talk about what's a habit forming technique, which very much centers on that sort of neuro centric framework of of how it works for others and Yes. So I was gonna ask, and it's what's your sort of final thought for people as we sign out? And it might be eat your frog first.

Like, which is why you might have got a so who wants to take it first?

I'll just jump on the you know, you're saying about your seawater swimming, Kaye. I just love that, but I think that links with kind of my final thought is being able to allow yourself to ride the wave because having ADHD is not like this. You know, it's it's just it's not. So but allowing yourself to know when you've got this surge of energy and what that means and what what can you put in place so that your transitions can be loving and supportive of your needs. And I think that that transition is something that I love now. When think about the transition transition of going, picking my boy up from school and coming home, the transition of ending one.

Coaching session with a client to another. What is my transition? There's a transition I need to make in my brain to allow myself to enjoy the next thing rather than either overthinking and taking too much time on the previous thing. And I feel like that's linked with riding the wave to acknowledge what are your transitions when you're on the surfboard, when you're in the water, when you're on the beach. Yeah.

Oh, love that. Kaye Heyes. To you. How can I top that, really? I think for me, probably the number one thing I'd say is go to the VIA survey. It is fabulous. Print out your three page report. And the example I give to clients, it's almost like you can in you can almost, like, choose to embody one of those strengths, and it brings a different energy to what you're doing. So I'm a I'm a single parent, so at the end of every day, I have to then make dinner. And I could do that from an energy of, oh, I've got to do this, so I should do this. Or I can choose to embody love or creativity or even curiosity and kind of cook from that energy. And already you can I I am sure you can imagine how how different that is then?

So it's not necessarily about, you know, hints and tips and strategies. Sometimes it's about the simple thing of just, like, looking into your being and who you are and just something like that. Well, tonight, I'm gonna cook from love for my children and cook from that place while they've been thinking about all the things you've got to do. So that's probably my my last my last thought. Although, we had another hour, I'm sure we could all three of us come up with with loads more. Oh, sure.

I love that, Kaye. I love that.

I think that's the really both brilliant. And I started to think that there are that there's three core things that anyone with ADHD, if they want to succeed, needs to do. And it's because it's three. Sounds like. And I need one of those little mics comes around here, like, you know, be a motivational speaker. Yeah. You'll know yourself. That means knowing you, knowing your ADHD. And that was what you talked to earlier, which is understanding what's going on. And you've then got to number two is you've got to work out what makes a difference, which is really what you talked about in the in the second half of this. And.

And that is different for you than others, that part of we're all unique individuals plus ADHD. There'll be some things that work for a vast percentage. There'll be nothing that works for absolutely everyone just as there isn't in the in the world for and you've got to do that. That's understand you, understand what makes difference. And the third part, is a tough like is a real toughie is you need to structure your world, you need to be in a place where you can be different. Because if you're forced to be on the tracks of others, you're gonna struggle. You've both been amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and.

And your spirit, your joyfulness, your positivity like, and those thoughts have just been it's been a genuine delight, and your insights have been spectacular. I really can't thank you enough. You're obviously both already involved with the charity and supporting it. Thank you. Obviously, Kaye, you were part of the the conference last year as well. You did an incredible piece talking actually about your seas swimming into and to go to Kaye's support group, which she does, and both have volunteered their time. It's all it's all voluntary, and it's very, very generous and appreciated. So thank you both. And wish I've got to sign you both out. So thank you. Thank you both.

Thank you, Henry. Yeah. Thank you, Kaye. Thank you, Ithalia. Great to meet you too, Ithalia. Brilliant. Thank you. Thanks so much. Enjoy the conference, and everyone enjoy the rest of the conference too.