So next we have, doctor Oli, Sophie, and Meredith. Oli is an autistic and ADHD non binary researcher focusing on lived experience of neurodiverse and marginalized communities. Leading the hiding or thriving project of ADHD, Ollie examines coping strategies and health care barriers for women and gender diverse people. With a PhD in public health from UTS, Ollie's research spans health services, sports impact, and neurodiversity in higher education. Also a strong advocate, poet, teaches mindfulness, Reiki, and yoga. Wow, Ollie. We are extremely privileged here today.

I myself have had lots of conversations with you, and you truly inspire me not just by your research, but by yourself, you, and your background and history. So I am very, very honored to be able to have you here and extremely excited about your presentation and having that conversation also with the wider globe today. So thank you. Oh, Ollie, just checking we can hear you. Seems to be a few technical hitches with your sound.

Okay. Can you hear me now?

We can absolutely hear you now. Yes. Yay.

Great. Thank you, Mel, and thank you for that really generous acknowledgment as well, Tim. And, yeah, it's really my privilege to be here. This is like a Eurovision broadcast in this moment. Am I am I I ready to go? And can you Yes. You're ready to go, Oli? You, Mel. Ready to go, Oli. Oh, thank you. Thanks, Mel. Awesome. So I wanted to start just by telling you a bit about who I am and who I think I should be. So I'm a doctor of public health, as Mel said, and I'm a lecturer and a passionate teacher. And my absolute favorite subject to teach is the social determinants of health. And I love to teach, so I should be good at presentations. And I should, be specifically good about presentations about the complexities of being well.

And I'm a qualified Reiki master in yoga and mindfulness teacher, And I've specifically worked with people with ME, CFS, cancer, MS, PTSD, CPTSD, and ADHD as it turns out for years, but I had no awareness of that. And I've even healed myself through some of these things through trauma, ME, CFS, and fibromyalgia. So I should be good in knowing how to listen to my body and stay in my body. And I'm a writer and a poet, and I've done lots of performance poetry, so I should not only be comfortable presenting, but should be good with words. Well, the beautiful universe on this week of all weeks, on the week I was to be presenting on unmasking and authenticity, it revealed myself to me. Not as I wanted to look.

I think I looked something more like this. So this week, beneath the mask, I've been a a mixture of emotions. And if I could draw myself, I'd love to have been able to draw a lion, but the reality was, as always, more complicated. And when ADHD Australia asked me to share my journey related to this amazing project for women and gender diverse individuals ADHD, my initial thought was, let me add it. Like many in this community, I've got so much to say, but then my body reacted differently. I felt panic rising. I started shaking uncontrollably a few days ago, and frustration, this familiar frustration set in as I struggled to express thoughts that had been crystal clear in my mind.

And I began to shake harder, and I began to pull up my hair, rub my hands, and rock, and I couldn't think. And I froze, and my brain just crashed. I also cried, which I think was actually a helpful strategy, something I don't normally do. And while my family's hugs helped, I still felt this urge to escape my own skin. And memories of chronic illness loomed large, and I battled feelings of inadequacy. How can I feel this way after working through so much in my life? And my brain and body just seem not to be able to bend to how I wanted them to. In the second half of this presentation, I'm going to be sharing a little bit about some of the stories of the women and gender diverse people I've spoken to this project, hiding or thriving.

And one of the things that really stuck out for me, and I have to let you know first that the research is at a really early stage. I've just we've just interviewed 20 people, women and gender diverse people diagnosed with ADHD over the last few weeks. I interviewed 18 of those. And one of the things that's really struck me was so many people talking about meltdowns. And actually, what struck me wasn't that they were talking about it. What struck me, they were sort of whispering about it. Like, maybe they wanted to talk about it more, but maybe they were shy. Maybe they weren't sure if it was acceptable to talk about even with someone else with ADHD and autism. So to give you context.

This was a group of deeply generous women and gender diverse people with ADHD. Telling me stuff we don't usually talk about, about deeply painful trauma, surviving and fleeing war, about low self esteem, about burnout, about getting fired, about connecting with spirits, about the deep pain of not fitting into the mold that society expects, but also about resilience and finding solutions against the odds. And every one of these women shared these stories generously and boldly. There were lots of tears, lots of laughter. But I noticed the one place there seems to be a shyness and reluctance to share was on this topic of meltdowns. So I was really curious.

And as someone with ADHD and autism, I also thought, well, everyone's processes and behaviors are different. I guess I just don't get meltdowns. And if I hadn't just interviewed these amazing women, I might not have given myself a moment to honor what was going on for me Because I noticed I just kept apologizing. I'll be back to myself in a minute. It's just part of the process. Don't mind me, like, rubbing my hands, rocking, and feeling completely insane. I also invented a word for it, strugulation. But but what I wanna say about it is a bit different to what you might think because I was absolutely strugulating. I was struggling to regulate my emotions.

In fact, I was struggling to control my body. But what I mean by that was that I was trying to suppress it, fight against it, but I shouldn't have been. And it took my neurodiverse 11 year old to to make me remember what I needed to be doing. And they said with their innocent big loving green eyes, you can't make your body do what it doesn't want to do. You can't make your body do what it doesn't want to do. And I carried on having my big feelings as quietly as I could, and I I don't tend to get outwardly angry at others. I tend to internalize these feelings as a lot of people do and a lot of women do.

So I set about my old habit of trying to stuff the feelings down and just apply myself, push harder to the task, but Seb's words rung through immediately and sunk in slowly. So I carried out anyway as best I could with my strugulation. And what I was struggling through was an old problem, trying to condense myself into slides, trying to understand technology, struggling with time, not understanding how what was in my head would fit into the thirty minute time slide slot, not understanding how to make a structure of my nonlinear thoughts. And this is another thing that's come up frequently for women. This notion of thinking differently, of thinking outside a box, and of hating being sort of put into one.

And for me, this structure or my ideas of what over the expected structure was hitting old wounds of of having a format to follow and squeezing myself into it and this idea of falling short and not reaching my potential because of it. And I realized I need to share this. I need to share this story that's happening in real time. I need to honor and be curious about this. And so I was interviewed a few months ago by the very gracious host Melissa Hamilton on the Brave Feminine Leadership podcast as a leader with ADHD, and she asked what I thought brave feminine leadership looks like. And and one of the things I said was a receptivity.

To change and the bravery to do what's required in real time, whatever the rules say, to listen to your staff or your students or your kids in real time, like what's going on for them, not to the schedule. And so I guess authenticity for me was allowing myself to not stick to my plan script here, but to go with the flow of what was happening in my world. Because when we're asking people to fit into a mold, you don't know what you're asking them to bring. When you're asking them to do a certain thing a certain way, you don't know what history in layers they have or what's going on for them in that given moment. And when I say that, I've got my students in mind. And so, of course, we all come with these complex layers.

And, of course, everyone's got probably a lot more than these. But what I realised was my body was saying no. Instead of just making it fit, I had to get curious and work out what I needed to do for me. So it seems fitting in describing a research project, it sought to find out about coping strategies of women and gender diverse people with ADHD. I ditched the script and tell you about my own coping strategy as a gender diverse person with ADHD and autism in this particular real situation this week. So I let my kids advice simmer in the background, and I had a few strategies to start with. So I acknowledged that my response might be considered a meltdown.

And because these other women I'd spoken to, I didn't feel alone in that. And I opened up to my family and my boss and my best friend and a small group of friends, and it was a significant step for me to do that. And my friend expressed that she felt really close to me for sharing, and my supervisor was incredibly kind and supportive. And by showing up authentically, I felt loved by my family and my friends and supported by my workplace. I practiced square breathing, just 10 breaths in, 10 breaths held, 10 breaths out, 10 breaths hold.

And I shared my struggle with my family. My kids and their very patient mother who's been a source of generosity and grace through my chronic fatigue syndrome years and years ago helped check my slides made sense to those outside of my head. They rallied around taking on extra tasks so I could focus during the kids' school holidays. That's another facet itself that we are as often parents, there's all that stuff going on behind the surface that we're trying to make it look like it's easy, but it's not. And I felt really grateful for their support. So that was a strategy in itself. Noticing.

The kindness around me made a big difference. I realized I wasn't alone. And I wanted to highlight that because in my struggles, I often forget to express my gratitude for those close to me. Sometimes that comes from a defensiveness and trying to keep small and not wanting anyone to notice what's going on for me. I also just kept on plodding. And as my 97.

Year old grandma would say, keep on plodding, Sophie. And I hear her voice all the time just one foot in front of the other. So I recognize that my worries about timing and writing my slides were distracting me, completely distracting me from what I actually wanted to do. And when the deadline blew me, I decided to just keep the slides minimal so you won't see my new words on the slides and, keep them aligned with my core message. And that's the hardest part. Choosing from a thousand images can be really time consuming and overwhelming, and I really struggle with choice. But I plugged it on. I took thirty milligrams of Vyvanse, something I usually avoid. I don't usually take medications, but it did help me focus a little and.

Move forward slowly. And I sent off those slides. And the next morning, yesterday, I truly listened to my body for the first time. I realized I don't experience these meltdowns often, largely because another part of me has been very good at avoiding those feelings. And I relied on an outdated avoidance strategies for so long that I didn't have time to process my emotions. I'd leave it right to the last minute so that I'd just allow the cortisol to push me through the night, but not even have time to really sit in some of the things that could go on for me. But as a 45 year old academic with young kids, I love what I want to talk about, and it's and I'm not ready to avoid leaving anything to the last minute anymore.

And what was happening this time was actually a wonderful new thing, and I needed to be much kinder to myself about it and stop struggling. And I I developed what I think is a kinder definition about this struggling. So I was determined not to let fear of my emotions hold me back from pursuing what I wanted in life anymore. For the years I've done that and had done that. But yesterday morning at 05:30AM, as I I felt calm after finally clean clearing the stressor from my deck, I suddenly realized something important. My physiological responses, shaking, rocking, hair pulling, binge eating, though unusual for me and and deeply feared as echoed by other women in the study, were just simply my beautiful body trying to communicate with me.

And I have learned to listen to my body time and time again, always trusting her when I'm connected. But this presentation had pulled me into my head, and I needed to reconnect with my body. And my body was recalling all the moments that I'd long to express myself, but felt something different emerging. It remembered the frustrations and the deep struggles I faced at university when despite being one of the smartest kids in school, I struggled to submit essays or even figure out how to begin starting something on the page, how to begin answering them. And my body was also, on the other hand, having come so far with understanding ADHD and who I am, my body was scared I might write something overly academic lacking its soul.

And my body was giving a firm no to that. So I felt this stuck energy within me. So my strategies for then getting back into my body were about to get a bit better. And so yesterday morning, 05:30, I got on my yoga mat. I began my day with exercise, meditation, some interpretive dancing. It's quite a hilarious scene, I'm sure. But it's things that I love. So I listened to drumming, and I drummed along. And I'm grateful for my family. I left for work and and took a swim in the Murrumbidgee River, a beautiful wild spot. And the water was freezing cold, but it felt incredibly cleansing, leaving me much more peaceful than I'd felt in a long time. And suddenly.

That freeze in my brain was gone along with the body pains that I was so scared about and the fear. And in the conversations with women, there was a lot of discussion about these practices that help us reconnect with our bodies. And there was some shyness again talking about that, And it's crucial that we find these practices in our own way. And women spoke about understanding that exercise is beneficial, yet they often dislike certain environments like the gym or in certain contexts or typical exercise environments and what might be seen as typical exercise environments. And many people express preferring incidental exercise and express the love for music and dance and nature. And when I listened and allowed my body to feel safe.

Releasing the stuck memories tied to past failures over seemingly small obstacles that we know as a community that they're not small for us, the best the message from my body became clear, which was do it your way. Write what you wanna say, not what you think what others want to hear. Let the words flow as they come to you. Don't worry about the order or the timing. Order and timing. Until the I heard the other stories of women, I thought I operated in a different universe in terms of order and timing. And the last thing I did was to work and write my thoughts out in a journal, pen to paper rather than the computer, and here we are. I just needed to reconnect with the meaning of what I was doing and return to my body. But why?

Why would any of that matter? Because I think if you can't listen to what's going on for yourself, if you can't honor that, it's gonna be hard to hold space for others to share their stories because our healing contributes to the wider healing. And also, because if someone who delivers presentations for a living and who has practiced somatic healing professionally and personally for years struggles to complete a PowerPoint presentation for something they genuinely care about because they've struggled with their feelings, then labeling a student, for example, because it's my area, as lazy or incompetent for not submitting something on time is not only shortsighted. It can significantly impact that student's journey.

It can mean the difference between that student giving up despite enormous potential and persevering to reach their goals. And I sadly often hear assumptions in academia about what non submission or lower marks signify of students and the effort. These assumptions about the effort that then that individual had put in. And I've pulled countless hours into this presentation, even staying up through the night on a number of occasions over the last few weeks, but I won't be using any of those disjointed words. I just couldn't pull them together. And if this were a university setting, I would likely fail for not adhering to the rubric. I was gonna be talking about something a bit different, but it wouldn't be due to lack of effort.

And I think it's incumbent upon us as educators to help students connect with the material, to find their own entry points, and to offer multiple forms of submission. And this approach enables students to engage in ways that work best for them. And in this research, several women expressed distress over not receiving promotions due to their ADHD. One woman shared that even her bosses believe she deserved the job, but because she messed up the presentation, they had to give it to someone else. And she struggles with emotional regulation around her frustrations, she said, feeling the need or being asked to fix everything for the person who took the job that she was qualified for.

And I think we often focus on what I'm noticing is we often focus on fixing emotional regulation issues rather than honouring what our body's saying and addressing the underlying causes. And this is true in any workplace, but especially in schools. And women in the research expressed a need for a way to connect with the meaning of what they're doing, moving from the abstract to the concrete. And they expressed a need for a sense of safety to be themselves. And they also talked about the ability to create and suggest solutions based on their complex identities and lived experiences, doing what makes them feel safe and works for them and them being the solution and being able to come to find the solutions for that. And.

This sort of summed up in this beautiful quote by Westerman, True leadership should champion those who have had to prove many people wrong to get where they are, who have had to surmount the most barriers to succeed. It's poor leadership to promote the idea that those who have overcome the least should drive solutions to those who have had to overcome the most. So I want to tell you a bit more about the women and gender diverse people in this research project. And I I wanted to pursue this for a long time. The reason I originally learned yoga and later earned a PhD in public health was to help people with invisible illnesses, particularly those disproportionately affected women like chronic fatigue syndrome. And after living for years.

With five years with CFS, I sought to find words for experiences that often went unrecognised. But after being diagnosed with ADHD, I noticed how many things began to fall into place for me on multiple levels, and I realised I might find more answers by exploring ADHD. As you know, women are much more likely to have co occurring health problems or other types of neurodiversity alongside ADHD than those who don't. And I was eager to hear about what women had been doing both unconsciously and consciously regarding their ADHD. Given that many women have been overlooked in diagnosis until recently, it was likely that a significant number were diagnosed in adulthood. What did women perceive to be the effects of this late diagnosis?

So I discussed this idea for this project actually with Mel, Melissa Webster from ADHD Australia early on. And she provided invaluable feedback and support which she's continued throughout the project. And I also invited a wonderful interdisciplinary cross institutional team of academics with ADHD to join. And it's been incredible to be part of this collaborative effort. So I'll just touch on a few topics. Like I said, it's really early stages, but a few topics that have emerged. The power of diagnosis, the complexity complexity of individuals and their intersecting identities, and the potential benefits of sharing coping strategies. So participants expressed this transformative impact of receiving the diagnosis.

Particularly in relation to ADHD diagnosis. And it fundamentally changed individuals' perception, self perception and daily life, which led to improved mental health and reduced exhaustion. They emphasised that understanding their condition alleviated the cognitive burden of masking their symptoms. So diagnosis itself was a major strategy for working with ADHD. And one participant acknowledged as well they're privileged as a middle class woman, recognising that this privilege facilitated their access to essential services including diagnosis and medication. And this awareness underscores the importance of recognising systemic inequalities in health care access.

Overall, the quotes reflected a deep appreciation for the positive changes brought about by diagnosis, while also acknowledging the broader social context. And people also talked about diagnosis revealing their own masks to themselves, about transforming from feeling ashamed of who they were, to celebrating being a part of the ADHD community. How they'd started to see themselves and feel seen for the first time. So while many people described diagnosis as positively life changing, they also found the path to diagnosis challenging for several reasons. These included burdens, difficulties in finding a psychiatrist or psychologist, especially in rural areas, and encounters with psychologists who are not specialised in ADHD.

And many of these professionals failed to recognise how masking techniques for women, how coping strategies and gendered socialisation could affect how women presented in clinical settings. Women expressed anger and frustration with the process, often feeling that they hyper focused on the subject themselves, read everything they could, and learned more about it than the medical professionals that they had consulted who lacked specialised knowledge. Both women and gender diverse individuals perceived this diagnostic process as distinctly gendered. And while diagnosis was almost universally regarded as a significant relief, most women also expressed strong feelings of grief and anger upon realising that they had ADHD. They felt grief.

Over not being diagnosed earlier, as earlier diagnosis could have meant access to medication and a better quality of life. Others voice sadness over the belief that a younger diagnosis might have protected them from harm, helping them avoid internalised shame and the sense that they were somehow failing at life. The importance of listening to and accommodating intersecting identities and experiences was really evident. One participant lamented, we don't leave room in our society for the wholeness of a person. We prefer the binary. One thing, one box fit into that. And participants identified various intersecting identities including ethnicity, culture, race, morality, disability.

And wealth as factors that influence their treatment experiences and contributed to their exhaustion. In particular race, ethnicity and culture were highlighted as complicating and exhausting factors in the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD, as individuals often felt compelled to wear masks related to these aspects of their identity. One participant shared they rarely felt safe around white people because they were often viewed solely as a black person without their myriad identities and the complexity of that identity. And the situation was further complicated by their family's lack of recognition of ADHD and chronic conditions within within their cultural context. Another participant insightfully pointed out.

That this widely shared theory in some communities, the spoon theory, with chronic illness didn't apply in the same way to people from different backgrounds due to racism. So chronic conditions and were also another major intersecting experience just as like CFS and fibromyalgia. Autism was also another common intersecting identity, also trauma, and there were a number of LGBTQI plus participants. Another participant mentioned the difficulty of finding a non white psychologist, which was harder so she felt it was harder they felt it was harder to be understood or feel culturally safe. One participant said, which I thought was well put, is this there's this almost collective experience of the trauma that inherently comes with not realising.

That you're different, or realising you're different but not having the reason why. Just feeling like you're having to operate in a world not made for you, then add to that the internalised shame and guilt because we're judging ourselves based on the neurotypical standard, which is often not sustainable or achievable for people who are neurodivergent. When you connect with other people who have been through the same experience and that discovery only comes with diagnosis, you really realise collectively that there's been so much harm that's come from not being picked up early and from not recognising. So people all talked about not knowing themselves, but feeling seen through sharing, a sort of return to life.

And the people describe partners having to get to know them again once the mask came off. Medications made a significant difference for many individuals. However, some chose not to take them at all or found that they didn't work well, often due to side effects like jitters. It sometimes took time to find the right dose. Many reported that medications were helpful. People also, while that was true, they also clarified that these treatments don't eliminate symptoms. Instead they made daily life a bit easier. Focusing, for example, became more manageable. Some people found medications life changing overall, though, or a game changer was actually a word that was used a bit.

Some individuals expressed concern about weight loss, poor nutrition, some heart problems associated with the medications, and poor nutrition was about forgetting to eat. While many individuals had developed coping strategies like drinking and avoidance prior to their diagnosis, they often felt that more options became available after receiving their diagnosis and realising what was going on and honouring what was going on for them. So this shift was influenced by learning from others on social media, as well as through conversations with ADHD coaches and psychologists. Participants identified various symptoms they wanted to address including overwhelm, meltdowns, PDA, RSD, burnout, frustration, perfectionism.

Binge eating, and brain freeze, along with issues stemming from co occurring conditions such as sleep problems, OCD, autism, dyslexia. Some women found internal family systems therapy and EMDR helpful, while quite a few noted that CBT was unhelpful or even counterproductive. Nature, music, and the companionship of animals were frequently cited as soothing and beneficial for well-being. One participant shared that although she struggled to make eye contact with people, she felt comfortable looking into her dog's eyes, feeling safe and that nothing was expected of her. Many women enjoyed physical activity with several mentioning that participating in sports and adhering to the structure of training.

Helped them maintain well-being during childhood, and often that disappeared in adult adulthood or as they became older. And that was kind of like losing a rudder. It was common for women to discuss working part time or outside of traditional nine to five hours to manage burnout despite the financial implications. So the financial implications of that were often talked about as well. Finally, sharing and listening to personal stories emerged as key elements in coping with ADHD and healing from the effects of delayed diagnosis, women emphasise the importance of unmasking, finding safe spaces to be themselves, and learning more about their identities. Together, as a collective, we're not just sharing experiences.

We're crafting a legacy of authenticity and of courage. With over a 100 women stepping over a 100 women stepping forward to be part of this project and its future phases, we're creating a space where experiences can be shared and be understood. I've also initiated an ADHD community healing project and podcast for women and gender diverse people, where we're not only discussing challenges, but also fostering an environment for women and gender diverse individuals with ADHD to be themselves. I hope that these stories will empower our children, both of mine, one with ADHD and one without, and to grow up and everyone else's, and to grow up knowing they have the freedom to be their true selves.

They will learn to recognise the masks they may wear without believing those masks define who they are. By sharing these narratives, can help them and countless others live boldly and authentically. And now as we analyse and publish this data, we'll uncover insights that empower not just individuals, but entire community entire communities. Together we're building a network of support of understanding of empowerment, ensuring that no one has to navigate their journey alone. So I celebrate the courage it takes to share the stories these women have provided so far, and I embrace the strength that arises from community. This is just the beginning of a movement towards greater acceptance and self discovery.

Not just for women and gender diverse people, but for all of us. Thank you. I don't know if you're talking, though. Can you hear me?

Hi, Oli. I'm just gonna bring myself into frame. I think, Mel just has some tech issues, but that was a really great session. Thanks so much for taking us through that. I really loved all the insights you shared. I'm just going to go to some of our questions. So if you give me a moment. Sorry. Just jumping on at Of course, Kylie. In, I think Mel hopefully is coming back, but has not appeared yet.

Oh, there she is. Kylie, thanks so much for stopping you.

No problems.

Hi there. How are you going? Thank you so much. And the beauty of technology as we keep saying. I was actually really fortunate, Holly, because right up until the end, I heard the full entirety of your presentation. So only the last bit was slightly missed as I was jumping in. So, look, firstly, I just want to say a massive big thank you to you. Really inspiring presentation, Ollie. We, at this moment in time, can see your lovely swimming pool, but can't see your beautiful face. But I'm sure that you'll log back on shortly. I have a few questions that I'm super keen to to ask you. And, really, one of them is about what have you learned about working with a team of neurodivergent women?

Yeah. Thanks for asking the question. It has been the best experience. And I thought it would be, but I couldn't have imagined how different it could be. And I think I think it's it was almost another phase of unmasking. We all met up for two days near the beginning of the project and shared at the beginning, I just said, well, let's just talk about who we are and share share a bit about us in the context of ADHD. Of course, well, everything's in the context of ADHD. It's definitely you can't separate ADHD from yourself. And.

And it was really interesting because I knew most of these women for quite a long time, and I saw them really differently. And we all reveal very different things about ourselves, and and just we looked different without the mask, and it's so nice to be able to work in an environment where you can be yourself. And I I think the project has shown me that that's true to one degree, but we've all got other masks. We've all got other parts of ourselves. But and you don't and the masks are really helpful, and you can wear them in certain contexts depending on where you are, and they can be protective and they can be boundaries. But.

What happened with us, the group of us, was that we the more we talked, the more we recognize things about ourselves. And so that going back and forward, the generosity and sometimes risk of sharing who you are often enables this this opening for others. And so I think that was a beautiful thing. And I think another thing was it was really nice to be honest. And I've tried really hard to keep doing this, and I try really hard to keep doing my students, and I try really hard to do it with this group, and we do it for each other, is be honest about what you struggle with, what you're not good at. And what I think arises from that is that people you actually end up.

Being able to acknowledge other people's strengths. So I think this is a part of the wider community, no matter where we are on the on the spectrum or the neurodiversity, how however wherever we land, I think when we say what we're not good at, we can acknowledge someone who is good at that. And one person in our team, for example, all the researchers at neurodiverse, and the grant money that I had, you might spend on other things. Some people wouldn't. I spent it on an administrative assistant who's amazing and has worked I worked with three years, and I expect lots of people with ADHD rely on these people quite heavily.

And I think her acknowledgment should be a lot bigger than it than it is often. And I think people often ignore the importance of people who are good administration. And for me, it's like I just admire it so much because it's I thought it's so difficult. So, yeah, it was it's just been absolutely beautiful, and and it's nice to turn up to a meeting on the Hiding and Thriving project and to be able to say, actually, this week I'm hiding, but I'll speak to you. Because I know I don't have to take up the mask. You know?

No. Thank you so much for sharing, Oli. And it's it's really interesting because you and I have had lots of conversations and, definitely, you know, having the opportunity to be able to share both of our journeys actually with ADHD and talk about it. I definitely find that, when you're in a space of you feel safe, you actually, then open up and talk more and then show your true you. And you feel really proud for who you are because you learn that the you actually is is beautiful. And the more people can bounce ideas off each other and the more people can share their beautiful stories, it creates this amazing opportunity for us to be able to feel really comfortable of being us and not having to feel that we need to necessarily mask.

Yeah. Completely. I think that's really true. I think I see that with my students as well, and a lot of people are surprised that people who seem like they're finding it hard with small things, once you remove some of those barriers and you make a safe space in a classroom to talk and be themselves and to talk a bit differently and and, you know, we all talk a bit differently, the the actually, then you see their potential, and this amazing this amazing stuff can come out. I think more you hide the things that you struggle with, the less room there is for those beautiful things.

No. Thank you so much. So I I could talk to you all day, Oli, but I am extremely conscious of time. So I just want to say a huge big thank you for, your presentation. Really inspiring, and has helped us to be able to to really get a a great understanding of of many things today, in particular to females, those individuals that that may be masking. And I'm hoping that, a huge amount of individuals have either watched today, or I'm sure many will, rewatch and have more questions. If people do have any questions that they would like to ask you, Ollie, is there some information maybe that you could share that, people could maybe reach out to you or contact you? Maybe that could be through the ADHD website?

Yep. Through the ADHD website, also the ADHD community healing project or podcast on, Facebook or on on pod if you look up on podcast as well. Yes. It's absolutely through you guys too.

Beautiful. Thank you so much. Really appreciate your time today, and I shall look forward to replaying back as well and hearing again more. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye.