Okay. So we have we have a couple of people to introduce you to, but first, I'd love to introduce you to Nicole Walsh. Nicole, welcome to conference. Just bringing you up on screen. Gosh. The Internet is lagging a little bit where I am, so that's part of the technical difficulties on my end. But, Nicole, welcome. Nicole, you are a champion within the ADHD Australia team, working across the corporate's programs efforts, and your bio is extensive, I know that you'll be talking with us a little later on. So I won't necessarily go into the depths of detail around all of your accomplishments, which are so vast and varied. But really want to, hand over to you so that we can introduce the Microsoft team with Dom and Cecilia.

Fantastic. Okay. I'm really excited to be here and, to have these amazing, people that I connected with earlier in the week. And hearing your story was really, really inspiring because you do hear the good, the bad, and the ugly of ADHD diagnosis stories in the workplace. And all I I truly was moved by the story, that Dom and Cecilia shared. So a little bit about Dom, to start off with. He is a modern workplace leader across, Australia and New Zealand at Microsoft, and he helps transform their culture and productivity, by various, strategic solutions and partnering with customers and employees. But since being diagnosed with ADHD in 02/2021, and I'll let him speak more to that, he is a very passionate advocate for opening conversations.

About ADHD in the workplace, which is absolutely crucial. And Cecilia Fang, which I absolutely love your last name, by the way. It's fantastic. Absolutely love it. She too, is she's smashing stigmas. She she's contributing a lot to the conversation around ADHD and raising really, really, really important awareness and also intersectionality intersectionality in the sense that ADHD is doesn't just occur by itself. Cecilia is very passionate about talking about how that intersects with gender and race, for example. So I'm really, really going to be excited to hear a little bit more about that as we go along, Cecilia. And she really is, smashing goals and opening up conversations about ADHD. Okay. So now that I've introduced you both.

What I would like to, explore is about disclosure. So we have a very personal story here that you you're both going to share with us, which is fantastic. And I think it's really, really important to say and recognize that disclosing ADHD, whilst I have an idealistic perspective and it should not be a drama, it is a very deeply personal, and difficult decision for someone to grapple with. And that all really comes back to the the culture of the workplace and the leadership in place in in that particular workplace. So, Cecilia, maybe if I get you to kick off, what's, what what made you or motivated you to to disclose, and what what what kind of made you feel safe in in doing that?

Yeah. So lovely being here. And I think to answer that question, there's kind of two parts to it. I think for every person, if you're quite comfortable, one, they have to be comfortable with who they are. But the second part is is creating the conditions and the environment for someone to openly share that. And I think I was very, very lucky in that I felt I had both. I knew for some time before I I shared it, but I I think for many people, we don't really understand neurodiversity until adulthood. I had a lot of friends that were going through a similar journey because neurodivergence tend to attract other neurodivergence. But I also I think at work, I felt I had a safe space. And.

The the two together made it so that I felt very comfortable, you know, firstly, maybe telling some of my close colleagues, and then eventually, felt comfortable telling my manager. And that was one of the first things that made me want to share, but I think there were other factors such as I was beginning to take my medication, and and I was a little nervous naturally around some of the side effects. And I was worried about how it's gonna impact my work. And and I'll touch on this a little bit later, but, you know, I I think one of the things that we learn to do, especially if we've been diagnosed at adulthood, is masking. And I think when you've been in denial or you didn't even realize you had.

Something like ADHD or it can apply to things like autism and OCD, it's quite a shock to the system. And I think when we when we're not super familiar with it, we we don't want people at work to know. Because when when you think about yourself and you think, well, I don't know what that means for me, you start Well, you're still trying to figure it out. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And you're worried about about labels that other people might put on you. So for me, I'd reached the point where I thought, I don't really wanna hide it anymore. And I do want to tell people at work. I wanna show up authentically. I want to be comfortable and and own up to my sense of self.

Excellent. And, Dom, how did you react to that as as a manager? That's a very I do appreciate, Cecilia's perspective, and I'm really encouraged that she disclosed that and and reached out recognizing that, hey. I might need some help here, and she she felt comfortable doing that. But how how did you react? What was your process with the disclosure from Cecilia?

Yeah. First of all, hi, everyone, and hi, Nicole. Great to be here. So so, look, I I was actually a pretty new manager when Cecilia disclosed this to me. And Woah. And at the time, yeah, I wanted to be supportive, but I really didn't know what to do with that information. And so I said, look. I'll go away. I want to do some research around this. And, really, I wanted to make sure that I could create an environment where Cecilia could thrive at work. And so some of the it could be a few small things that I've found through the research, you know, making sure that I'm really respectful of her focus time, making sure that I'm supporting her as she is going through the journey with the new medication.

Understanding that some days she might be really on, other days might be a little bit tougher, Or even things like, you know, if I'm setting a deadline, thinking about what are the milestones along the way of that deadline so that we can coach through the milestones rather than just to the deadline. And so I think that those were some of the small things that I thought about to start with. But the other piece as well is, you know, and you probably picked up through Cecilia talking now. She's somebody that's very keen to make a difference to the people around her. And so I actually encouraged her to tell her story wider as well and and become a champion for neurodiversity, which I know was pretty scary for her at the time.

But she really took the bull by the horns and has just done an amazing job of doing her story with the Microsoft Fang Z team and then even going as far as she's got a podcast going and so has really become a a great advocate for neurodiversity. What's let's plug the forecast. What is the forecast?

Yeah. So I've been collaborating with a few people and just just on LinkedIn. It was crazy because after this this this story kinda blew up in in Microsoft, what was amazing is, you know, we we had a lot of not only, you know, other younger people that were reaching out, but also, you know, more senior members leaderships leadership in the space. And and so I got invited to, to speak with, quite a few people who had, like, a podcast server. That was very exciting.

That is exciting. And it is all about that conversation and sharing stories because stories do have the power to shine a light and on an issue or also, bring greater visibility or what's possible. So for you, your story is one of, hey. I'm coming I've disclosed this. I I'm being my true authentic self, and it's an empowered story. It's very, very, very inspiring. And I think there's a lot that we can take from that. But, Dom, I remember in our conversation, if you're you're comfortable talking about it, you said in your own research, you did a little bit of reflection on yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And this is where things took a bit of an interesting turn because when I was doing the research, I started to recognize a bunch of behaviors and things that had happened in my past that looked very familiar. And so, eventually, I went through the process of getting diagnosed myself. Think first of all, I did about a million online tests, and it was only when I'd done so many of them I was like, okay. I have to go and talk to someone about this. But look. It was such a relief getting diagnosed, and it explained so many things about the pressures that I felt, not just in the workplace, but in in life. And and the beauty of it as well is that because Cecilia had been such a trailblazer.

And had been so open in sharing her story, that really removed that stigma for me. And it made me very comfortable to talk about it myself in the in the workplace with friends, colleagues, family. And so I have a lot to thank for Cecilia about with that. And, you know, you talked about the importance of leadership. And for me, whilst I was the manager, it was really Cecilia's leadership in this case that helped me.

That's fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing that. It was when we had the earlier conversation, it it definitely definitely inspired me your, your story. And but I do appreciate that these stories aren't, you know, everybody has very different experiences. And if you you say you know someone one person with ADHD, you don't know everybody with ADHD because there there's a lot of difference and diversity, and it's quite a nuanced, neurological condition that's still there's still a little ways for us to go in terms of understanding that. But things like ADHD awareness month, this global event itself really, really does help, promote broader understanding, which is what we need at the end of the day. So.

Thank you for for sharing the personal story. If we could talk a little bit about, what actually practically helped on the ground from a, a reasonable adjustment, and I hate using that term because it really it's very legalistic. But, essentially, what I what I do find in my disability advocacy work, a lot of, people don't want to bother, they may disclose, but they don't want to bother their manager or the employer with what ideas they have that may help. You know? And so it would just be really interesting if you could share a little bit with me. Cecilia, maybe if you wanna start about what what really helped you from from that perspective. What changed about how you worked when you disclosed?

Yeah. That that's a question I get really commonly. Right? And, I always kinda sit there a little bit stumped because I think I can answer it, but I also can't answer it. And what I mean by that is the way that I think about adjustments, you know, or accommodations or options is there's there's there's two things we have to look at. One, our general accommodations that we should be making for everyone with accessibility in mind. And that's a little easier. You know? I think every employer has the onus to make flexible working and and comfortable working a reality for everyone. And what I mean by that is if you think about physical spaces, so having a quiet room, having a room where someone can go in and just focus on their work.

That should be available. And not only neurodivergent people benefit from that. You know? I've seen prayer rooms. I've seen yoga rooms. I've seen all sorts of rooms being leveraged to their fullest extent. But then if you think about virtual spaces, you know, if if someone wants to go for a walk at midday because they feel overwhelmed, I I think someone should be empowered to, you know, use their lunch times for that. And those are general accommodations that we can make that anyone can benefit from.

But you mentioned earlier, Nicole, you know, every person with ADHD, every person with autism, every person with OCD is very different. And I have friends I'm combined type, so, you know, I'm full of energy, but I'm also a little distracted at times. And it's a spectrum, and some of my friends are inattentive. And what we need are are very, very different things. I get frustrated with them. They get frustrated with me. And when we work, it's very different. We take it well off each other.

Yeah. Yeah. We're very honest with each other. But that being said, you know, the accommodations are are very different, and I think what works for me might not work for them. I struggle sometimes with sensory issues. So if I'm working in a cafe and there's music playing in the background, I'm bopping my head. I'm dancing around. You know? Like, I can't focus. Listen. My friends don't have that problem. So when it comes to specific accommodations, I think that's when you need to be a little more courageous. And whenever someone asks me that question, I say, well, I don't know you. You need to sit down and think about how do I empower myself to work in my best way. And then, unfortunately, you do have to work up the courage to, you know.

Prescribe that to yourself and and tell your workplace and and see it really clear boundaries with your manager or your other colleagues. And and and Dom and I literally had a conversation, you know, a few weeks ago where I said, I book in time in my diary to focus on things, but I don't respect my time. And when someone messages me, I'll immediately reply because I get excited or I wanna work on it straight away. So I I think Yeah. Yeah, that there's there's two kind of accommodations we have to be be kind of wary of.

And you're right. There's no one size fits all when it comes to to making accommodations and adjustments. And, certainly, in terms of courage, I think I think it's also education as well because some of the, the clients that I've spoken to, they they honestly yeah. They're a bit at a loss. So they're researching going down the rabbit hole, trying to maybe trying to retrofit something to their circumstances that may not, really align. It may look. You don't know unless you try. But having that conversation when they already I guess what I'd love to eradicate from from the the the way and the narrative and why, disclosure of ADHD is described is that it's not a bother. It's not a bother. You're not bothering someone.

You're you're when you're telling them. And and also for that manager, and, Dom, you certainly did acknowledge, that in Cecilia's case, that it is a very courageous thing to do, to to admit that you're, it it shouldn't be seen as that. I I think I'd love to to normalize that that and and hopefully, look, certainly, with yourself, Cecilia, getting out there smashing stigmas, opening up the conversation, hopefully, that allows others to to start talking about it in the same way we talk about mental health a lot more than than we used to. That that used to be such a, taboo subject matter. It's still I won't, you know, I won't be in la la land. It it still is not where we we need it to be, that conversation.

But it's moved a heck of a long way. And I I'm an optimistic person, so I see the same thing for, ADHD. Do you guys feel the same way in terms of what your experience is?

Yeah. I think that there's particularly when you're looking at making some of the workplace accommodations, I think people don't quite know how to react. And I'll I'll give an example, and I'll I'll get to the point at the end. One of the things that I've always struggled with is procrastination. And so I'll know that I've got some big kind of piece of focus work that I need to do, but I just won't find the time and the day to do it until it gets to a point where I've left it so late to the last minute. I'm so stressed about it that I just have to get it done. And so one of the things that that I've done is a couple of approaches. One, the concept of a day off.

Which is you're not really taking a day off, but as far as everyone else is concerned, you are. And that means that you're You're contactable? 100% of focus. Perfect. Not contactable. You just ignore everything. You put your out of office on. Hey. I'm not there for the day, or even saying, actually, I'm gonna take Friday off, and I'm gonna work Sunday instead. And so what that's helped me do is whenever I have those tasks, I can park them. I don't have to worry about them at all, and then I can pick them up on that day when I'm not gonna have all of those distractions. And from a stress perspective, it's been quite a game changer for me. But I think that that sort of stigma of people are saying, well.

How are you gonna be there for your team on those days? What what if your team needs you? And all these sort of questions start start coming up. But, I mean, I'd love to think that I'm that important that I can't disappear for a day to go and do something else. But I'm sure Cecilia can attest that that the team can survive without me for for these times. And as far as my stress levels concerned, as I said, it's just been a game changer. So some so I was gonna say some of the other Yep. Things that we have at work that have been super helpful for me. We're we're really privileged at Microsoft in that they offer us a a lot of additional services to support us. So one of them is the Headspace app, which they they provide for us for free. Yep.

Yeah. So it's a it's a, basically, a guided meditation app. Okay. And I find the the meditation really helpful for calming my mind and having those my times of peace. And then, additionally, we have a service called Spring Health where we get free therapy sessions. And for me, having time with somebody that's an experienced ADHD therapist has really helped me with some different tools that I can think about as how I I manage my ADHD.

Fantastic. Cecilia, did you wanna talk a little bit more to what's practically helped you? You did mention a couple of things before, but maybe from a a technology perspective.

Yeah. I know I know Dom's really passionate about this as well. But we both have to be because we're in that kind of model workspace. I think some of the things that have helped I'm still figuring it out, I think, if I'm being really honest. Right? And, like, before we would, I think whenever someone goes on that journey, what was really confronting for me was seeing I don't know about anyone else, but when I got diagnosed.

They handed me, like, a list of symptoms. And I was reading down this list, and I'm like, oh, you know, no one wants to be friends with me if they see this. Like and and I think it's not a it's not a game of bingo. Right? Like, we're we're not going through these symptoms and say, yep. I have that. I have that. I have that. And no one's winning or losing. I think for me, I'm still experimenting with things that work. And what Dom talked about, that focus time, it's fantastic that I have a manager that doesn't work on Friday and works on Sundays. I'm a bit of a night owl, and sometimes I like to work in the evenings. It that's not for everyone. One of the things that the point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I love evenings. Workspace.

It's a I know COVID obviously came in and disrupted that, but I am seeing a little bit of a, oh, let's return back to what we know, and they wanna sort of it's a what's comfortable, which doesn't necessarily work for everybody and their energy levels.

Yeah. Exactly. And and I think and I have a lot of colleagues, right, that that we are not neurodivergent. We need to pick their kids up at a certain hour and and and for whatever reason. And and for me, I love working at night, and that could be, you know, at the ungodly hours of of, like, 9PM where I'm drafting this in an email because I just get this burst of energy. I'm like, know, there's there's something that I have an idea. Yeah. I need I need I need to And do this and so I start typing something up, and then I realized, you know, it's not a good look if someone gets an email at 9PM. But for me.

You you can you can schedule things. You can use the tools to your advantage. You can schedule emails to send early in the morning where they're awake, and there's a lot of data and insight now that supports that where they say, oh, you know, this person usually work between this hour. Like, why don't you schedule it for then? And so for that, it's the tools are there. It's just making sure I understand how I work and then leveraging them to their fullest extent. But I'm still figuring that one out, so I might have to come back to do it a year and let you know.

I think I think we we always like to think of work as a thing that you do, not a place that you go. But I think with what Cecilia has just described, you have to be very careful around making sure that we're maintaining that work life balance. Because what we don't want is Cecilia working all day and then going, well, actually, I work better at night, I'm gonna work at night too. Because then you'll just end up working all all the hours of the day. Equally, you know, coming into the office and spending time in the office and connecting with your colleagues is really important And so we wanna make sure that we have that balance around when people are working.

Where they're working, how they're connecting, and making sure that we're driving that right with life balance.

Fantastic. Agreed. So could you, Dom, Cecilia, jump in at any time? Talk a little bit about, how important it has been to be open. I know Microsoft have certainly come a long way in terms of the conversation had started, but your voices are very, very important to that conversation as where everybody's are. Okay? So what have you what's been the impact of of being so open How's that result? Yeah. So.

Probably the pivotal event, Microsoft runs a series of events called inclusive, which is it's a big investment of of time. We take all of the people out of the business for a day on a regular basis and tackle some really complex and important issues like gender or racial discrimination. The last one that we did was around accessibility. And so Cecilia and I hosted the event, and and we shared a bit about the story that we've talked about today. And and what we do as part of that event is that we encourage people to to reflect on what they hear and think about the actions that they can take individually to advance inclusion and and so on in the workplace. Since we did that event.

So many people have come forward and engaged with me around a shared challenge that they might have personally or wanting to understand how they can support people more in their life who might be neurodiverse. And, look, I'm by no means an expert, but I'm I'm a very happy listener, and I'm happy to share my story with them and and hope that it helps them as they they navigate some of these things.

It it it is really interesting. I've had people say to me suddenly when you're you've been very open about ADHD, you become the guru. People do expect to look almost expert very expert level which, look, at least they're asking the question, and, Dom, I think you've made a really important point, there, which is a lot of the time people do think of it as the manager employee dynamic, but there's the colleagues, there's the team members around, and and it's really they're they're really key to they can really impact how that experience of of, you know, disclosure goes, for that particular employee. So they can either be on board and supportive.

And support you know, giving a very safe workplace culture to for that person to truly shine and be themselves. Or because they don't understand it, they can bring, unfortunately, a lot of, neurotypical ableist, thinking and certainly don't want to judge them because at the end of the day, ADHD Australia, we have a really important role in educating, everybody, you know, including businesses so they they can better support, people with with neurodiversity and, and, obviously, ADHD. So in term so the conversation, did that then did you see a bit of a ripple effect to how people were interacting with with yourselves even or.

Others? Were they cute you you mentioned they were a bit curious and wanting to to pick your brain a little bit, Tom, about particular things. But did you did you notice a little bit of a shift in, I guess, behavior, and attitudes? Because it is about shining light.

Yeah. Absolutely. I think, for for one, I I had quite a few people come up and say, hey. Look. You know, what do I need to do to to help you to so that I can interact with you in the right way, which which I mean, that was super cool, but that that that was probably the smaller percentage. It was it was more the people that were like, hey. Actually, I need some help for various reasons. And for whatever reason, they weren't talking to other people about it up until that point. And so I think by having that conversation, it it it is incredibly fulfilling to see people be able to have the conversation, not only with myself, but Cecilia and other people in the organization.

Because it you know, it's it's when you talk about these things, when you bring them into the open, when you share them, we can deal with them together instead of people sort of bottling them up and and trying to deal with it themselves.

That's exactly right. And when we think about the reasons why someone might disclose it, and, Cecilia, you did touch on it a little bit earlier, it's okay. Starting medication for the start. That could have an impact. It takes some time to find the right medication and adjust to that. My son has ADHD. I also have ADHD, so I can relate to all of that. And, and and it does take some time. But the the other piece to it too is you you can see that you're not once you understand the diagnosis, can see where you could be, you know, and, you might need the support and there's gotta be that trust, which clearly you guys have. You've got a fantastic culture and absolutely that that's a wonderful, wonderful thing.

But you but you've gotta have that trust between the employee and employer to have that conversation in the first place. But you can't get to that unless it is visible. And and that's one of the things about about this neurodiversity. I've I've had employers say to me, but it's invisible. We can't manage it. It's to me, it's very, very visible, but it's I guess it's just it goes with a little bit with the territory there about that. Did I don't know if you have any any further commentary on that aspect of it.

Yeah. I think for for me, one of the effects that I had that was a little bit of a shock was when other people in my wider team came forward and told me either they went and got diagnosed or they were hiding it for some years. I had a bit of a reaction. And and this is, you know, me publicly admitting this, but I had a bit of a reaction where I thought, how's that possible? You're you're such a high performer at work. And then as soon as I had that thought, I was like, bad. You know? I was like, bad, Cecilia. Bad. And and and I think that's what's helpful as well is having these role models, having having, like, top performers at work, having people who do well at work, but are still neurodivergent.

That's what we need more of. You know? We we shouldn't, you know, we we shouldn't hide and and be shameful of it, but we also shouldn't almost, you know, victimize ourselves. And I and this is this is speaking personally. When I got diagnosed, I actually felt really, you know, almost sad about it because I thought it was a really bad thing. And I thought, you know, what could I have been had I not had ADHD? Right? And it was a very negative way of viewing things. And so when other people came forward in support, but also in allies that that I that would I would see and think, oh, they're a really good salesperson, or they're a really.

Strong technical lead in the team, then I would think, oh, okay. Why was You I know? Yeah. Yeah. How how do they hide it? Well, they didn't really hide it. They just channeled it in in a really good way. So yeah.

Exactly. And the masking, that that whole when you think about the energy that it would take to to put into masking ADHD, that would be better channeled much better channeled actually using the strengths and the you know, of ADHD because there's a lot of positive that it can add to the workplace. And I'm sure, Cecilia, you've got some something to comment on about that. I know you love the industry, and it sounds like it's amazing, soul heart aligned industry for you because there's always a lot going on. You're you're not going to be bogged down by bureaucratic tape and everything else, and there's there's a lot of opportunity for innovation in that particular industry as well.

Yep. And and I and I keep using this metaphor, but I think if any industry had pretty severe ADHD, it's tech. I I think our organization, particularly, we change very rapidly. And, you know, it's funny because every year when there's this change, there's nothing you can really do. You just have to really adapt. Right? For me, I finished my uni degree with with law. And so and people are often very surprised when I say that. I said, yeah. I was a law student. And I don't know how I got through that because I don't know how I got through that. And when I when I reflect back, I I think that the nature of the law is, you know, looking at the past, applying it to the prison, a lot of that sitting down reading through long cases, legislation.

And it's it's it's it's a it's a grind. And I think back then, it was really difficult, and I didn't think any other option was for me because I had had very strict family, very strict upbringing. I thought that was the only way for me. And so when I when I decided to kind of get into tech, I was very excited. I was very drawn. It was very shiny to me because it was an opportunity for me to see how fast I could adapt to a situation. And there is so much learning, so much change in this space. The amount of of change we've seen in the last few years with COVID alone is is is pretty exciting, but also terrifying. Right? Like, you look at the the rise of AI.

We look at people's, you know, workplace behaviors are changing, and it's it's able to do so because we now have the technology available. And I think yeah. I'll I'll stop there because I don't wanna give spoilers to anything that Dom might talk about. But yeah.

Dom, did did you have anything else to to contribute to that? Thank you, Cecilia. That was that was great. And I relate to the I relate to all that reading.

Yeah. Not not too much to add, but look, I think we're we're lucky we work in tech because it does change so fast, and it it is such an exciting place to work. But I think to Cecilia's point earlier as well around, you know, successful people with ADHD, we we do have superpowers. And you think about things like creativity and what that means when you're in a a tech sales role and how you can use things like problem solving when you're you're creating new products. Right? We have these amazing superpowers that when we harness them, we can do incredible things at work.

Yep. And I think I think that's really important going back to what Cecilia was mentioning with the diagnosis. You do because there has been a lot of negativity. The the way, ADHD is described, if you look at the two, even the two d's, heart deficit disorder in in the the actual the the label itself. Okay? And, so that that is a lot. But the certainly, with everybody sharing their stories and bringing greater awareness, we we are starting to change the conversation around it and for the better because that then does encourage others to to speak up and and and, you know, ask that question, seek some help. But I think, it sounds like you do have a fantastic culture at at Microsoft, and leadership.

Is I appreciate what Dom said earlier in our conversation that, you inspired him, Cecilia, and that that's absolutely fantastic. But the right leader can really, really make a difference. And I and I think, Dom, you mentioned you were fairly new to to a leadership role at the time. So that was I think it's, fantastic how you how you handled yourself and, and that you researched it. I love I just love that you you went to the rabbit hole and and and had a a really good look into, okay. What is this? How how can I help this person? What was your your intent in doing that? Was that to obviously, you wanna retain Cecilia, make sure she's really she's well supported, she's trusted you with with that disclosure.

Is there any, I don't know, any advice for other leaders that you would give?

Yes. So so I think and you talked about the culture within Microsoft a bit. And and one of the things that we very often talk about in Microsoft is their growth mindset. And so if you don't understand something, then go and learn about it. And so effectively, that that was part of the the motivation. But also, I I think I mentioned before it was so I know Cecilia is a very capable performer. If we wanna get the best out of her and for her to be the best that she can be at work, then what do I need to do to create that environment for her her to do that? And so based on the information that she shared with me, I didn't know how to do that, so I had to find out.

Okay. Fantastic. Do you think that workplaces now are certainly, I know Microsoft has had a journey and still continues its journey. It's fantastic. You've got the, you mentioned the inclusive, group that that gets together, and there's a real network and community, within Microsoft. So that's really great for support. But do do you think, from what you're seeing out there, that it it's starting to shift a little bit for employers. Are they they're kind of looking more at what they can do proactively to to support? And because the the look. The odds are if you look at the percentages, they will know someone who's neurodiverse, or there possibly is someone in their workplace who's masking. And.

Then they get much better their energy would be much better directed if they could bring their true selves to work.

Yeah. 100%. And I I can talk from a Microsoft perspective more than rather more broadly, but I know that we we put huge efforts into this. We have a chief accessibility officer within our organization. We educate our people. We allow people to self attest where they have a disability so that we can make sure that we put the right things in place in the organization to support those people. So the whole point of life cycle, it sounds like, through to yep. Okay. That's fantastic. Absolutely. And and and we talked a little bit about workplace accommodations as well. Plus the other piece as well within Microsoft, we have some amazing technology that that can help with these things if we if we use them correctly.

Exactly. Okay. So we did touch a little bit on the technology before. Did either of you I know you're you're tech geeks. AI. AI and ADHD.

Tell me all about it. Come at me. Yeah. What's good about it? So we it's We're we're very proud tech geeks. Thank you. But I I I might start a little bit around some of the challenges that that tech creates for people with ADHD, and particularly for information work, because it spends a lot of time on a computer. We we do a lot of research in how people work, and, also, we have a lot of good telemetry around how people use the tools. And so I I pulled out some of the stats. When I look at these stats, I always think, you know, how does that affect a neurodiverse person versus the average person? So the last study that we did, I don't get the right number, sixty eight percent of people.

Say that they don't have enough uninterrupted focus time during the day. And so that's neurotypical people. And so think about how does a person with ADHD survive in that environment.

Wow. Yeah. That's really telling. Yep. Yeah. That's that's a scary stat. You in the face. The data just smacks you. What about things like the task, trying to keep to, obviously, deadlines, having reminders. Does that help? Does that all yep.

Yeah. Yeah. So we we've got some powerful tools with for that. I might come back to that. I'll just share a couple more stats. On average, people spend a lot more time in Teams' email and Teams' chat than they do creating things. And so when I talk about creating creating a PowerPoint, creating a Word document and if you think about what a person with ADHD, what the superpowers are, that's probably not toiling away in emails. That's probably creating amazing PowerPoint presentations or really interesting proposals to send out to customers. And so we're we're often thinking about how do we shift that balance to get people to do more creative work through tools like AI away from the kind of the more admin focused work.

And then the the other step that I'll share, since February 2020, and I think we all know what happened around then, people spend on average three times more in Teams meetings than they did then. And even post COVID, that's not that's far from going back down to what it was before then. And then on average, during the workday, people interact with teams oh, sorry. People interact with teams 1,500 times in a month. So I've reverse engineered that to work out. It's about every six minutes on the average workday. So you think about somebody with ADHD And he's your office. Sitting in meetings all day Yeah. Distracted. It's it's difficult. But the the good news is that get the work done. Focused on it. Exactly.

So so there are some great tools to help. So the the first one I'll I'll talk about, we've got a a productivity insights capability called Viva Insights. K. And what that actually does is it looks at the way in which you work, and it helps you set some things around the way that you work to to help you be more productive. So as an example, it will help me book out focus mode time. And during that time, it blocks my calendar that turns off all notifications. People can't send me Teams messages, so I can focus on on that work. Super simple app. And if people with ADHD don't have this one, Microsoft To Do.

It's a relatively simple list making app, but it's just so handy. You put everything in a list. You can put it into your day so you can just focus on the things on your list for that day, shuffle things around. And this is a really good way for people with ADHD to manage your time, attention, and your energy a bit more effectively. And then the final one I'll talk about, and this is the real game changer that's that's coming now. So m three six five Copilot. And Copilot is effectively the AI capability that we're building across all of our products and services. You can do things like within Teams when you're in a meeting.

You can ask your Copilot when you've drifted off in the meeting, hey. What happened in the last ten minutes? And it will give you a summary of what everyone's talked about for the last ten minutes. Very dangerous, Dom. But how can I It's incredibly on point?

Because meetings are very long. Okay. I'm just very conscious of time. I really appreciate all of those, those hacks and tips. Thank you so much. You've been an absolutely wonderful, panel, and it's been so fantastic to hear your experiences. Again, only having just met you earlier in the week, but you're you're absolutely both of you, very inspiring. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

I'll echo that completely. I have learned so much, and I you've used a couple words which I just wanna home back in on. One is trailblazer. I think it's been so great, Cecilia and Dom. But, Cecilia, thank you so very much for sharing your story. I I really love the way that you articulate and the way that you can relate. And I think that that's pretty evident with some of the comments that we've got coming through the stream. So thank you. And Dom mentioned growth mindset. And I think along with another one that, Kieran mentioned earlier is equity. I think growth mindset in the way that we approach this topic, you know, there's that's the best foot forward. And just the way that we are open and transparent.

And the way that we can bring others involved in the conversation with a growth mindset, with a level of curiosity, I think, you know, that's always going to be a a winning combination. So Microsoft are very lucky to have you in their ANZ team and and on in the Australian team, Cecilia. So I I can only imagine, what what improvements you've made there, but also to what's coming. Nicole, thank you so very much for moderating this section. Such great questions. Really love your insights and inputs. So we're going to hand over, I can see, Mel, our, ADHD Australia CEO, and, our next guest waiting in the wings. So I'm going to say goodbye. Thank you so very much.

We look forward to having more conversations in the future, but thank you and take care.

Thank you so much for having.