Welcome, Anita.

Thank you. Yes. One of the biggest things I always come across when I work with couples is that language difference. There's often a sense that, one partner just doesn't understand the other one and vice versa. So I started using idea of the hunter in a farmer's world. He wrote a book many years ago where he started with a premise that maybe the ADHDers were descended from the ancient hunter gatherers, whereas the non ADHDers were descended from the the farmers. And because of that, their brains developed very differently because they needed different strengths. And so I started using this with my, clients and also for myself because when I first got my diagnosis.

It was I didn't like the idea of having a disorder. I didn't feel disordered. I didn't feel broken. I didn't feel I needed fixing. I just needed to understand who I was and how my brain works. And because everyone assumes the way that their brain, the way that they think, they feel, the way that they experience life, the way they behave is sort of normal, they assume everyone else thinks, behaves, feels, senses, everything exactly the same way. And, obviously, that's not the case because our brains, they they impact all of those things. And that means that when you have couples where one is one type of brain and the other one is the other one, that you totally different understandings. Your brain simply works different.

So to start with, I used that, that image, the idea of the hunter and the farmer as a metaphor, as a sort of a way to just explain differences. But recently, more and more researchers are taking this very seriously. So on my next slide, you can see, two different, very recent last year's research, both of which very specifically talk about this idea that the the brains develop differently because, from an evolutionary perspective, they are they need different strengths. So, for example, hyperactivity, impulsivity, and novelty seeking is going to be incredibly useful if you're a hunter, if you're a hunter gatherer because you can react in a moment. You can so react to any changing circumstances.

And if you're a hunter gatherer, you'd be nomadic. You'd be traveling around. You'd be constantly in new environments. You'd have to be able to adapt quick quickly to that. Whereas if you're a farmer, say, then you're fixed. You're in one place, and so what you need is very different. You'd need stability. You need to be able to to routines do the same thing over and over and over again and feel very happy to do so. So I'm going to take you through several of these different themes to do with the farmers and the hunters. And I want you with each one of them to really think, in this case, am I more of a hunter or a farmer? Okay. So the next slide then is about orientation. So automatic choice of focus.

So the the farmers if you think of a farmer, agriculture need to be really focused on details, need to be able to take all the daily tasks and do them exactly the same way day after day after day. And they need to be really, really able to do this and to like doing it because the harvest depends on it. Their life depends on it. So god is in the details would be a typical farmer saying. Whereas the hunters, they're very different. They are focused on patterns. They have a changing landscape the whole time, And so they would see the patterns of the land. Where is it greener? Where is where might there be water? Where do I see birds suddenly scattering from trees, which means there might be something, either a big.

Predator animal or there might be some prey there. So all of those things means you need to be able to track changes, patterns. So change is the only constant is a typical hunter saying. So if you then take this with the with the next slide where I'm talking about the science, then the way the brain develops the way the brain develops in non ADHD is is that you get rapid growth of connections, which is called a sort of sorry. Pause once one moment back. You get rapid growth of connections, and then all the ones that are not necessary or that are not very effective, they get pruned back. And then the remaining ones get myelinated, which is a sort of insulation that goes around it, which means that the transition is much faster.

And it goes through one specific path without being cut by any of the other connections. Whereas if you have the ADHD brain, there is a lot less of that pruning of the synapses. So all those separate little wires are still there. All those connections are there. There's also a lot less of that insulating myelination. And so it's a little bit like you've got life wires touching each other, sparking all the time. So you get, a chaotic chaotic inner life, but at the same time, that chaos, all those connections, also means you get sparks of genius. You get connections that have never been made before, and that is the big advantage of it. So both of these are good. Right? So as a farmer, it's great because you can keep.

All the detail. You can keep life going. Society was really built by farmers, our society nowadays. Whereas ADHDers, they're the ones that can change things. They're the ones that will spot when something isn't right. So, for example, in a work environment, it's always the ADHDers that will say things like, but why are we doing it this way? And the typical answer of because we've always done it this way is never going to be enough for the ADHD. What then this has as an effect on the next slide is that we are impulsive. We get distracted really easily, and we have difficulty staying focused. And with this then, with all that difference in the way the the the connections and everything, It means that, our two.

Modes of focusing in our brain, and I'll explain a little bit more in a moment, but those two modes of focusing that we have are different from those of non ADHDers. So, normally, you've got the default mode network, which is sort of like where you go back to. It's your default. So it's you're completely relaxed. It's your daydreaming mode. It's where you go back after you focus and you relax. So you bit your zoning out. It's where your thoughts go all over the place. Then you've got your focused mode network. Now your focused mode network is where you go through an existing path. It's a very direct, very, very strong focusing, so a real concentration thing. Now with non ADHDers.

When this focused mode network switches on, the default mode network switches off, which means they can really concentrate. With ADHDers, when the focused mode network switches on, the default mode network doesn't switch off or not completely. So that means that all the while they are trying to focus, they also get distracted. Their brains also go to all these different areas, which, again, this means that on the one hand, yes, easily distracted, but on the other hand, a lot of new connections, a lot of connections between areas that may never have had otherwise. So this is why we're inventors. We're really good at coming up with creative solutions.

All of this because of this difference in the default mode network and defocused mode network. Okay. So which one of these do you think you are in this one? Do you think you are more of a hunter or more of a farmer? So we're going to the next one, which is energy, restlessness, and relaxation. Now, again, when you think about farmers, they need to be able to keep going steadily throughout the day. So they have a really focused energy throughout the day. It's about the same all the way through the day. They can keep going, really sustained energy throughout that day. And then by the end of the day, they can just relax, and that's great. The hunter, on the other hand, if you imagine it, you go and.

You're sort of really relaxed first, then you're getting ready for the hunt. You psych yourself up. Adrenaline floods up. You get really, really into it. You throw yourself into it to a 100%. You go for the hunt. You kill. You deal with the animal, and then you collapse again. So the energy is in a big wave. So our energy flows in waves. Now that means that we might get, about three hours worth of work done in a single hour and never exhausted. But with our normal working lives, the expectation is that we still keep working like that for for the other seven hours that we've had we have in the day. And that is why it really doesn't work to have for most of us to have this whole.

Eight hour day. That's why it's so difficult. And very often by the evening, we're exhausted. We're there when she can't even relax because we're so, so tired. So how why and how did this happen? Okay. The next slides will be the science bit again. If we're thinking about brain waves so brain waves, if you think about your your brain cells, they're all sparking. Right? Now if they all fire at the same time, you get waves. So those are the brain waves. And, there's many different types, but I'm focusing three specific ones here. The first one is the theta. Now that's really associated with daydreaming, with relaxation, with creativity, with REM sleep, so your first stages of sleep, and also with intuition.

So guess which one we have lots of. Right? Okay. If it if there are an excess of these theta waves, it can cause challenges with focus, anxiety, and mental fogginess. And, again, many of us know very much about this. The other one, the next one is the beta waves. The beta waves are the ones that are to do with sustained focus and with with deep thought and logical, logical thinking. So with these two, the the balance with non ADHD is is that they have more beta waves than theta waves, whereas with the ADHD is we have more theta waves than beta waves. So the non ADHD is the brain is automatically going to go to this this focus, this logical, this this very conscious thoughts.

Whereas the ADHD is much more automatically going to intuition, intuition, to, creativity, and to that part. Then comes the last one, the alpha, and I think that one's quite important because it's to do with relaxation. And so many of us find it really, really hard to relax. With the alpha waves, there is a difference, but there's no consensus yet what it is. There's only a consensus that there is a difference. So it might well be that the alpha wave patterns is why we have such difficulty with truly relaxing. But, again, that one's not really up yet. Okay. So what is the result of this then? On the next slide, you'll find out. We have more daydreaming and less active concentration. We've increased creativity.

And better intuition. And with that, I really wanna talk about that a little bit because we're always told with decision making that we have to do the, you know, the pros and cons list. The thing is it doesn't work for us because that is dependent on that logical thinking, all of that side, whereas we work with our intuition. So, actually, for us, we can make a pros and cons list, but in the end, it's how we feel about it that will influence which decision we will make. So there's also, we come up with a lot of novel solutions to problems, and we struggle with transition, and that's also because that involves a shift again in in, brainwave patterns.

We often struggle with anxiety, which is that theta excess of theta waves and with brain fog. Now any of ADHDers that watch this, those two, yes, it it is just part of the ADHD. It's part of it, but you can train yourself out of some of it, which is also important to note. Okay. The next area then is the predictability. So farmers farmers like routine. They crave routine and structure because that is what is necessary for the farming. They need to be able to do exactly the same thing, same time of year, same time of day, and like doing that. So they.

They need to know when to sow the seeds. They need to go out every day to check the fields. They need to go and look after the animals. Every day needs to be the same. So that is what naturally their brains have evolved to want to do. Whereas hunters, they react in a moment. They are very flexible. They can change direction in in in a second, and they're very, they get very tired of things when they're the same, so they need a lot of variety. They get bored very easily. On the other hand, they are extremely good in emergencies. In an emergency, you'll find while the non ADHDer is still trying to figure out what's happening, The ADHDer is like everything clicks into place.

And they have seen what is necessary. They have dealt with it, and now everything sorted before the non ADHDer half the time is even up from their chair. This is why so many of the emergency personnel are in fact ADHDers. So with this one, which one do you think you are? The farmer or the hunter? Let's find out a little bit more about it in the science bit. So with the with our brains, all of us, that includes ADHDers and non ADHDers, our brain continually tests. They check it continually checks how our internal perception of our external environment and the reality of that external environment, how in sync they are. So it's like you've got an internal world that you assume your outside world is like, and then at the same time.

You have the actual external environment. So the brain checks at times. With ADHD, that checking, that whole process is altered, And so that means we check much more often. So the focus is constant. There's a constant sense of checking our environment, checking what is going on. And in in essence, that's what earlier I talked a little bit about, that we spot when anything can be done differently. So, you know, I was talking about the work situation where we come up with this thing of why is it done this way. That is both our struggle and our strength. Because if you think about the current problems in society and in the world, the farmers are really the ones the nonadieties are the ones that build society. And as.

As you all know, you can't really change society. You can't change a system with the same tools that built it because there's, like, a bias involved. So I think it's actually going to be the it's gonna be the ADHDers, the autistic, dyslexic that are going to solve a lot of problems. And, yes, that's just my personal opinion. So so what does this lead to, this constant shift then? On the next slide, you'll see that it's a the constant and quick detection of any possibility of positive change like I just said to you just now. So we are continually coming up with ideas of different ways that it could be better. So this particular system, why are we doing that way? Because that way would be much better. It I'm assuming.

It can be really irritating to people that work with us that are used to systems, and I just wanna keep going the same way. But it is one of our strengths to to analyze the whole pattern analysis that analyze systems as they are and then how we can change it. So with this one, if you think about the couples, where I haven't really talked much about that yet, have I? But if you take this one particularly with with couples and you talk about situations, quite often, you'll find that the non ADHD partner will try to set up systems because that is how they work. And but the systems are set up in a non ADHD way, whereas the ADHDers would set up totally different ways of doing things. It doesn't remain.

It doesn't mean that they don't want any systems because most ADHDers, we do recognize we need structure, some structure, but it's not the same structure. And so when I work with couples, this is one of the things we really talk about is that the structure can be there, but it has to be flexible. It's like a flexible structure where things can be changed. And if the a d ADHDer will come up with ideas to make a change, whereas a non ADHDer will come up with a way that they can then implement it in a way that it makes it into a structure. So this is how you can complement these, these these different strengths. Okay. Next one. Sensitivity. This is something that isn't it's only slowly beginning to be clearly recognized that ADHDers.

Have a lot of sensitivities. But let's go back to the farmers and hunters first. So the farmers, if you think about farmers, they live in communities. They are in communities in a way that everyone has their own role, their own job. And so they, there will be someone whose task it is, for example, to make to guard everyone else, which means that the other individuals can just get on with the job. They can focus on it. They don't have to take everything else in. They can just focus on it because on their very specific role. Whereas the hunters, they are mostly on their own, and so they need to be able to pick up cues from everywhere. They need to to notice when the weather changes. They need to know.

When there's a slight sound that might be a prey somewhere or a slight sound of flock of birds coming from the trees, which might indicate predator or, a rumble of thunder or lots of different things. They have to pick it all up, and so they are much, much more sensitive. Most of us ADHDers are sensitive in a way with sound, for example, with light. I've never been to a concert. I can't cope with concerts because of just the sheer volume of sound. But light as well, bright light or flickering light can really I struggle with. But there's also things like a a change in in change in air pressure. I will always know if a front whether front is on its way because I'll get a migraine instant. So it's all these sensitivities.

And they then have an influence on your life. So for the science bit now. So non ADHDers seem to have some sort of inbuilt one moment. Of inbuilt defense system. So there was a research done where they had, sort of they took EEG, scans of of both non ADHDers and ADHDers, and they exposed them to loud noises, bright lights, all of that sort of stuff, too whole too cold, too hot. And what they noticed is that the non ADHDers part of the brain lit up. The not but the ADHDers, it did not lit up. So the non ADHDers somehow switched on some sort of defense system, whereas the ADHD is it did not. And what I find particularly interesting is that even when the ADHD is themselves were not conscious yet of their being of it being too noisy.

Or too bright or too cold or too hot, their brains had picked it up already. So that's what the EEG showed. So this means then that when you come to, even your home, if you constantly get lots of, lots of this sort of stuff coming at you, and it can also be emotions from people, it can be, loud noises, people talking, etcetera, then it's very easy to get overwhelmed. And this is in a work situation, but it's also in a home situation. So what I find with ADHD, non ADHD couples is that the ADHD tends to need some time when they first come home to just de stress. Whereas often, the non ADHDer comes home and wants to talk, but the ADHDer can't cope with this because it's too much input.

At that moment, if they try and talk, they probably blow up with some sort of silly argument that they never meant to start, but somehow they were already on that heightened state. And not talking was just like the last drop, total overwhelm, big arguments, both going off in different directions, and then having to deal with it. So it's important for the ADHDer that they get some time to actually just do whatever they need, and it's different for each one of us, what they need to just lower all those stressors. But it's equally important for the non ADHDer that they get time to talk. So it's more a sort of.

Figuring out when the talk can be. So it might be there's, like, break first. The ADHD can do whatever they need to do first. Then they come together with a cup of coffee or a cup of tea or dinner or whatever, and then they talk. K. So the next slide will show us the well, actually, all it shows is the little bit about the defense system. So yes. So on this one, which one were you more? The hunter or the farmer? K. Next slide, please. K. So this is a little bit of what it feels like. When you're the ADHDer and you get all those impulses coming towards you. I used to I used to try and explain it to people that it's like watching seven different television channels at the same time and trying to get all that information in at the same time.

So it's like all those sheep coming towards you and you're trying to deal with it. You try and move one sheep away and the other one comes back in. So this leads to oversensitivity to burnout through sensory overwhelm. So the senses literally get completely overwhelmed. And even if you take this into the hunter farmer scenario again, hunters would be out in nature all the time. Right? So nature would calm them. Whereas the farmers, they'd be in a community all the time, so they would be much more used to being around people. So even with that, it would fit in. Okay. So the next one is about I will find out. Can't remember. Curiosity or perseverance. Okay. So farmers.

Farmers can keep going. So they have real perseverance. They just keep going and going and going, repeating the same task as we said before. And they don't tend to they don't really get bored in the same way, whereas hunters, boredom feels like I once saw it described as they'd rather have a needle stab in the eye than be bored, and that's very true. We have a sort of hypercuriosity. And you can imagine that if you're a hunter, you need that. If you're constantly nomadic and you're traveling around as a hunter gatherer, you need to be able to spot differences immediately. You need to find the new environment. Why is that bit there greener? Because it might be that that means there's water there. Right? Or that's odd. That area there has.

Very few plants. I wonder why that is. Maybe there's something in there that's not particularly healthy, or that animal goes there because, whenever an animal's ill, it goes to that particular bush and eats a leaf. Why might it do that? What might that do? So it needs to they need to be continually really curious about everything. And so hunters need novelty, need con continual change and novelty and new stuff. K. What that then goes to the, sorry. Let's go to the the science bit. So the science bit then is that, this is quite new research again. All the research I've mentioned in here is all from 2024, 2025. So the hypercuriosity, as I said, might be really useful in ancestral environments.

And when you get the slides, which I'm quite happy to to share with everyone, by the way, when you see it, you can find the the links to the to the research. You can read it for yourself. So what this leads to then with us is, for example, all these millions of hobbies, which all ADHDers will recognize. We go and, find a new hobby, buy all the gear, and practice it for three or four months maximum, sometimes three or four weeks, and then we're bored with it. And we've got all this stuff.

And.

That means that people tend to think then why can't I ever stick to something? And the partners think, why can't you ever stick to something? The reason is that you keep having to find new stuff, and that is that natural hypercuriosity. I did I don't know if you've ever done the VIA character test. It's it's you can go do it for free. It's called VIA, which stands for valuesinaction,dot,uh,character.org. And it's a a set of character strengths, and it puts it in order which is most important to you. Well, needless to say, curiosity is, pretty much one of my higher ones, and I bet it will be of most ADHDers. So, what people forget, however, going back to these hobbies and the arguments that happen in couples where this is keeps happening.

They they sorry. I got distracted by the little thing at the bottom. Distraction. Right? Okay. What happens is that the hobbies, instead of getting rid of them completely, we can cycle hobbies. And I had no idea until I real realized that I did actually get back into the hobbies afterwards. So most of our hobbies, and it goes to exercise, it goes for any arts and craft, it goes for for anything, basically, We have it for a few months. We get bored. We leave it. A year later, we might pick it back up again. So don't get rid of that stuff. K? You might actually go back at it. Although if you haven't used it for, like, three or four years, then maybe not. Okay. Can we have the next slide, please? Yes. So lots of exploratory behavior.

And novelty seeking, and then this is often labeled as distractibility and impulsivity. But in essence, it's a never ending, carousel of hobbies, but there is but it is because of this hypercuriosity and there's also real thirst for learning. Not always academic learning, but there is still a lot of learning going on. The thing that made the difference for me was when I read the book, which is on the slide here, which is Refuse to Choose by Barbara Share. She doesn't actually mention ADHD, but she talks it about scanners. And scanners are people that do things and then change and go to the next one and change and go to the next thing. So it's all about having multiple careers. Yep. That would be me.

Having masses of different hobbies, really throwing yourself into something, getting really good to it at it. And in just a bit, you'd become a master in it, then it's boring, and then you go on to the next. So that book's really interesting to read. And the one bit I will never forget is where she says that when you've done something like a a training thing, for example, which you haven't finished as all of us have done, don't think that you failed, but think that maybe you got everything out of it that you needed. Well, bless it and let it go. That bit was such a transformational moment for me because so many of my trainings, I get two thirds of the way through, three quarters maybe, and then I'm bored with it. I want something different.

So maybe that is because I actually got everything out of it I wanted to get out of it. Now for the life of me, I can't remember if there is more slides after this or not. So, Henry, could you just check? Nope. That's the last slide. So what I want to do is really open it up for questions because I wanted to do this because I'm sure there's lots of questions coming up here.

Howdy. I thought that was wonderful. Thank you so much. And yeah, just absolutely wonderful. And I just need to get rid of these slides quickly. There we go. No, I love that. I particularly like the discussion we just had on hobbies is favourite one for me. Love that framing of that you've got everything you want out of it. And I had my own interpretation of that, which is I just the way I made peace, and this is before I had my diagnosis and understanding, I just like, exactly as you said, like you feel awkward, you're like I'm failing at this, I'm failing at hobbies, like I'm supposed to like love one and stick, like that's why I'm I need to pick like trains or something, like that's me and it's not. And I.

Reconciled that by just going, right, my hobby is doing new things for a while.

I love that.

And so I and in that, I'm really consistent. Like I my entire life, I do it for a little while. I get to an area I get to a level of like, solid mediocrity. You know, I'm I'm capable at it. And you know that sort of Pareto law, which is that it takes 20% of the time to get to 80% of the understanding, then the remaining 80% of the time is to get that last 20%. I looked at that thinking and went, I should do a lot more of that first section. Like, that seems to be where you get the real value. And but obviously, there remains the problem of like the stuff you buy for the hobby and I've also reconciled that with, well, with eBay. Like, if I eBay giveth, eBay can taketh away. Like, if you buy it on eBay.

Then you're only now exposed to the marginal cost of like when you sell it and the difference you sell it for, which probably won't be huge. And.

Yeah. I often thought there should be a library for ADHD hobbies with all the gear ready for the next one.

I I a part of me thinks this is a great idea, but the other part of me knows that one of the things I love to do is deep dive dive deep into the stuff, find out the exact thing that I think is perfect and go get that. And which obviously a library, you know, won't have my exact one, but eBay is a very, know, big thing. Love it. Actually maybe the way to think of it is eBay is the library. Yes. And you're just paying your your fees. Right, we've got lots of questions, I need to come on to those. Thank you. I thought it was fascinating and I apologise. We've got a team effort here. So there's wonderful Lauren, who's on later, help with the slides. I took and it was me who did the little messages at the bottom.

Which distracted you, which meant I felt a little bit bad. So my apologies for that. Right, questions. Let me pull them up. Anyone, can put questions into the we've got a feed from wherever you're watching, so we can pull questions in from there. You should have seen us able to pop those up for some of those that have come up. But you can also go to globaladhd.com, the main sort of site, and put them there. We are currently sitting at global livestreams. When I last looked, we were at 50.1 k, so 50,100 people. So far I've seen some of the conference. And you can see us on Instagram, YouTube, x, LinkedIn, the globaladhd.com site itself. Right. This is the point where I'm like, where are these stashed questions?

How do you handle household responsibilities when one person needs routine and the other thrives on flexibility?

Okay. That one comes up a lot. I think household chore is quite a big one. The way I often get people to do it is to, first of all, write a whole long list of chores, everything. And I I don't mean just a household bits, but also things like organizing holidays, birthday gifts, everything, a whole long list. Then divide up a piece of paper each where you have a big cross through the middle, so you divide it up in four quadrants. And then the top left, you put everything that, you would love to do anyway, so that gives you energy. So any part of any of those chores that gives you energy, you pop in there. The top right, you pop.

All the things that you're really good at. They might take energy, but you're really good at them. So you pop them in there. Bottom right, you put all the things that you're quite willing to still learn and you think you might become good at. And anything left over, you pop in the bottom left. And you both do this, and then you compare. Anything that's in the top left, you you keep hold of that because that gives you energy anyway, so you keep doing it. Anything in the top right, you discuss, and you sort of make sure it's even the amount of stuff you do. And you go all the way around like that. And then the last bit, anything that both of you have put in the bottom left, you're going to really think about how much is it necessary.

Can be afford to get anyone else to do it, And is it really, really necessary? Things like, you know, a daily vacuuming of the house, for example. Is that actually necessary, or could we make do it once a week? So so that's one part of it. And then the structured part, what I often get people to do is to to organize meetings. It sounds really odd. I know. But a meeting between a couple, a weekly meeting, say, beginning of the week or a Sunday evening where you sit down and you discuss the week ahead, what needs doing, what are all the things you still have to do, you put them on a joint calendar, but also who's gonna do what of it, and where do we put the reminders. So that you've both organized it because.

Otherwise, what happens is the non ADHDer takes on the role, and the non ADHDer gets absolutely exhausted with the role of managing the whole household, and that's not fair. But at the same time, the non ADHD assumes the ADHD can't do it because, you know, they forget things, etcetera, which is why it's so good to do it together. So you have this meeting once a week where you sit down and you discuss all of it and you go through it. And that that means there is a a flexibility in that because you've got the structure of the meeting and then sorting it out. But for the rest, it's up to each individual to figure out when.

And then the last bit is that when it's anything to do with the chores that you hate and that, for example, ADHD, you'll always forget, you do a bod a body doubling episode. So you both do things. It doesn't mean you have to do the same thing. But, for example, Friday after work, you come home and you think, right. It's cleaning time. K. We're both going to clean. What do you what from this list are you gonna do, and what am I gonna do? And then you do it. It's much easier for us to do it then because there's someone else doing it as well.

Thank you. And I I thought that Matrix was really great. I can see why you're such a good coach. Thank you. But I thought it does a really good job of disconnecting the a lot of people evaluate, particularly in a relationship, like it's how much effort they're putting into different things. And that can create a real disparity where people are putting a huge effort into something that actually someone the other party finds easy and so don't value, like they don't recognise like it's such a big deal. And so splitting out and recognising, like judging it by the results and being able to split it on effort, big it's deal. Was thinking we have in my own household, we have similar things going on. Like, I I find.

Well, putting putting together the regular shop, I'm not good at it. Like, I'm definitely the right who delivers in an hour type. I'll get this stuff now. My wife's very good at it, but it's like for her, not such still obviously effort, but not quite the level for me. And it's the exact opposite for say cooking, so I can't happy as Larry to cooking. And well, I have to be fair to her. She's got quite into it in more recent years. And then we have like cleaning up after, like, so the ideal is one cooks, the other cleans. But like, once we hit, like, after basically dinner, I am out. Like, the effort to tidy. I can basically do it, but I have to be really angry. Can just I just like, I part of my energy is gone. Like, I just want to relax.

Whereas in the morning, like, don't mind. I'm like, yeah. And it's taking a little while to get to that piece of like, we're just gonna shut the kitchen door. And I'm like.

I will deal with this in the morning. See, I'm the opposite way around. I can't cope with the morning stuff.

Yeah. I don't like how you yeah. I've got better well, to be honest, I don't like it, but I like it a lot less than I don't like the evening, doing it in the evening. And I'm reconciled with that. So that is what I'm but it's that split, is wonderful. That was really great, Anita. Thank you so much for everything. Was just very, very interesting and a really great discussion on so many aspects. I think that, yeah, that juxtaposition relationships, it is critical and and continues from some of our earlier presentations. You've been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so very, very much.

Thank you.