Simon Barakis, MP, will discuss the inquiry into the assessment and treatment of ADHD and support services. The honorable Simon Barakis is a liberal member for Clark in the Tasmanian House of Assembly, is a dedicated advocate for housing, economic growth, and ADHD awareness. He was diagnosed with ADHD in 2023, and he is the deputy chair of the parliamentary inquiry into ADHD. Welcome, Simon.

Thank you, Rob. Thanks for having me. Can you hear me okay?

Yes. Yes. That's good. Thank you.

Excellent. Look. Alright. I'll I'll say a few words, and then I'd love to do a hear from what people what questions people have, but I'll I'll get I'll get right into it. Thank you, Rob. Thanks to Carly and Mel and the rest of the team for including me in this important conference. I'm joining you from the beautiful state of Tasmania in Australia. My name is Simon Bracus. As as Rob introduced me, a member of the Tasmanian Tasmanian House of Assembly. As far as my story, in early two thousand twenty three, I was diagnosed with ADHD. When I say that I was diagnosed, it would be more correct to call it re diagnosed. I was told that I had ADHD as a child.

And it was a typical story of a kid who was told that he was bright, but if only he just applied himself more in school. Otherwise, you know, I'd never get anywhere in life and told that I was disruptive in class and and I know those true reasons that I think many people watching would be familiar with. At the time, the conventional wisdom was that kids would grow out of it and coupled with all the sensational stories that you see on Today Tonight and Current Affair and and those shows that Ritalin and other ADHD medications were turning people's kids into zombies, my parents discontinued treatment, and I continued to just live my life. As we know, children with ADHD don't grow out of it, and it just presents differently in adulthood.

As I found out growing up and struggling with aspects of my life that seemed inexplicably challenging. In 2022, a severe case of burnout gave me calls to reflect on my die childhood diagnosis, spoke to a GP to begin that process of getting re diagnosed. And the process, I have to say, was arduous and challenge seems specifically challenging for somebody with ADHD, which, you know, as as as viewers would would know is a condition which is, you know, when untreated presents with chronic procrastination, bad organization, and all and all and all those sort of things. And the process seemed specifically designed to make it as hard as possible for people with those symptoms to to to navigate. First GP I spoke to.

Was cynical to say the least about the concept of me even having ADHD even though I was previously diagnosed with it, suggesting even that I maybe I just had nine deficiency. Eventually, after some prodding and pushing and urging, they agreed to provide me with a referral, refer me to a psychologist. He told me that I'm more than happy to provide me with therapy, but they had no idea why I was referred to them because they couldn't diagnose or prescribe, and that was a job for a psychiatrist. So I then had to go back to a GP, a different GP this time, and start that whole process from scratch. And when I when I once I finally from when I started this process to when I sat down with a psychiatrist, got a diagnosis, got got a prescription.

It was about ten months, which is a timeline that would have been about four months longer if a opening hadn't a cancellation hadn't caused an early opening. That period of uncertainty and limbo was a really, really difficult time. It's the closest I've been to saying that I've had depression, you know, feeling burnt out and just treading water and wondering when I'm going to be able to move forward in my life and, you know, fix fix things. Luckily for me, my story does have a happy ending. Good news is, as people know, the majority of cases, ADHD is very treatable, and treatment can be very literally life changing. Talking to people with lived experiences online, on Facebook, and in person.

It made it apparent to me that what I experienced, which is difficult for me, was in fact possibly best case scenario as far as people's experience in navigating the system. There's people that have to wait much, much longer. There's people facing prohibitive cost to treatments and and other roadblocks. And when I say, you know, me going through that rediagnosis, that that is important because I I knew from the beginning of that process what was what was wrong, so to speak. I well, I never had this.

I never had that, like, oh, what's wrong with me? Why can't I do this? Why is why am I having so much trouble with this? I I knew, okay. I have ADHD. I need to go through that process. And as someone that's, you know, worked in government, works in works in politics, navigating bureaucracy is something that is part of my day to day job, and I found it painfully arduous. So for someone that is confused as to where they are in life, confused as to why they can't you know, why they're having trouble doing things that other people aren't aren't having trouble with, You know, the the difficulties they must face is is is just something that breaks my heart to to be to be quite frank. You know? And that's when you hear waiting lists.

Around Australia being so long that in some cases, you've got clinics that pop up offering, you know, diagnosis for a fee, and sometimes these fees costing as much as $3,000 to jump the queue, which is, you know, just call it price gouging vulnerable people, I think, is a is an understatement. The you know, turning turning the medical care into a transaction and and a commoditization, I think, is just the worst thing for medical care, and I think it's an abuse of vulnerable people. Person like, that's that's but it it is only something that is available because of the the difficulties in accessing care through the normal channels.

Current regulatory framework in this space further limits the already limited capacity to treat that condition in Tasmania. My experiences with ADHD haven't been something I've spoken about until recently. You know, for many reasons, being in a being in a public facing role, you've you've got that sort of fear or worry that, you know, if I speak about the fact that I have ADHD or if I let anyone know, then maybe it's gonna rule my career or or hurt my career or maybe people won't take me seriously. You know, when I spoke to my.

Diagnosing psychiatrist, he did sort of say he did say to me, look, you're not even the first politician at design you're diagnosed. I'm obviously not gonna you guys obviously won't tell you who, but you're definitely not the first one. So you know? And this really came to a head for me prior to the election, which was earlier this year, the Tasmania state election. I had a conversation with the CEO of a local mental health advocacy group, and just in conversation raised some issues that I I have some familiarity with. And so I know exactly what you're talking about. I've, you know, I went through the process not long ago of being diagnosed with ADHD, and I had that exact same experience. And she says, oh.

I've got ADHD too. Oh, you know, great. She goes, you know, you're the first person I've met in the professional world that has ADHD. I was like, well, I I promise you that's not the case. I'm just the first person that That submitted it. Yeah. Sent it to you. They sent it to you. Right? And and she did say how, you know, she's it would be so powerful for more people that are in your position that have ADHD to be able to speak about it, to talk about it, normalize it. Not, you know, so much to deal with the issues, but just to make people feel comfortable that they can, you know, they can have something.

Like ADHD but still be, you know, successful if you wanna use that word, but but but still live fulfilling lives and still still do all the things that they wanna do in life. And it did give me a a a call, you know, of reflection and thought, well, you know, if I'm in a position now where I can do something about, you know, making things better and I can I can improve things and talk about things, then I have a responsibility too? And and so once the opportunity.

Yeah. It's easy to say that hard to do, and kudos to you for doing it. I.

Yeah. I I thank you because Thank you. And and and and on that, look, the and I'm skipping I'm now skipping past a couple of things in my speech, but the is the the fear of what might happen if I spoke speak about spoke about it when I did was nothing there was nothing but support. So and that's, you know, in a in a role such as politics, you stand in the chamber, you got people from different political parties, everybody's, you know, out to get each other and out to you know, it's a competitive it's a competitive space. And you kinda walk into the chamber thinking, like, if I'm I'm making a big mistake doing this, people are gonna use this against me. And and I think one of the best parts of this whole process.

And I think a really important part of this process, and I it's a it's a really important point to make. To get meaningful change in this space, it is so important that it's something that everybody being involved in. If it turned into a political issue, you know, it's a government it's this government's fault, this didn't work, or it's that government's fault, people start getting falling into talking points, people start falling into defensive, you know, lines and and then people jump in their trenches and nothing gets done. But but something that I will, you know, say has been really positive so far, and and what I was able to do in the Tasmania parliament is move a motion that the Tasmania parliament.

Embark on any parliamentary inquiry into ADHD in Tasmania. And part of that has been so successful so far because all the different parties, all the independent MPs have have been very happy for this not to be a partisan issue and to be to just accept that we, the royal way, have fallen behind where we need to be in this space. More work needs to be done for the sake of everybody in, you know, the the thousands of people in Tasmania that are experiencing this. And rather than it being a liberal versus labor versus green issue, just an issue that we all need to acknowledge that we need to find ways to to to do better. And I'll acknowledge as well the the work that senator Stuart Jordan, the green senator.

Has done. I see that he's the next speaker. Right. I've spoken to and he he he up a senate inquiry a couple of years ago, which which did much the same, but in the in the commonwealth sense because in Australia, there's certain things fall within the the federal jurisdiction, certain things fall within the the state jurisdiction. And this Tasmanian inquiry is aimed to complement and build off the work that Joe senator still John, and that senate inquiry is done in a way that's specific to the Tasmania context, includes things like prescription regulations, which fall under state, the pharmaceutical benefits game, and and things like that. But it's just I just wanna reiterate the importance of that. If if people want to.

I mean, their jurisdictions try and advocate for change and try and push for for similar actions to to make things better in their in their societies, in their in their jurisdictions, making it as apolitical as possible and making it something that everybody can take ownership of rather than people jumping into their trenches is really, really, really important. Otherwise, you you just get people trying to manage the issue and which which holds things up. So, you know, just some of the examples we have in in Tasmania, The you know, we've got maybe, you know, as a state, Tasmania's got a population of a bit over half a million people. There's maybe four psychiatrists in the state that treat or assess ADHD for adults.

Their books are always completely full. And, you know, so there's a there's a there is a restriction in the capacity and the and the the resource there, but also the existing protocols and regulations and rules in Tasmania for prescribing and for assessing serve only to stretch those limited resources thinner than they need to. And the the the level of coordination, the level of standardization is is so minimal that you get anyone can go to up to any GP, and they'll have a completely different experience. Everyone's experience there is no standardized experience, which is hard for people with ADHD because because of the symptoms that that that people like me and others that haven't have.

It's just that much more difficult to try and navigate those systems where there isn't a clear cut pathway. And then you have these wait times and you have, you know, no. You went to the wrong specialist. You need to go to that specialist, and it's months and months and months. You know, one of the other one of the other issues is the regulation around prescriptions. The you know, there's people that have risk of or any any history of of drug use that then get completely restricted in the methods and the ability to access the important medications they need to treat the condition. You know? And and ironically, the the untreated ADHD, one of the symptoms is a higher risk of of drug taking behavior. Awesome.

You would think that, you know, the easiest way to treat those symptoms is to give the medication that they need. But as soon as someone has a risk of drug taking behavior, we're gonna make it harder to access that treatment. You know, we have, you know, in dysmania arbitrarily, you cannot access ADHD treat ADHD medication after 70 years of age. We we don't have GP co prescribing, which means that the psychiatrist books are just full of people like me who have to go there every six months or so to get my scripts redone, which is something a GP could very, very easily do rather instead of assessing people that are waiting in line that are, you know, have their high lives on hold like I did for for ten months. These are just.

Some of the some of the issues, and there's numerous issues, and it's a space that I don't understand. I'm not a medical health care expert neither are the majority of my colleagues in the parliament. So it's very easy for me to identify two or three things that need to be done and say and and, you know, advocate for them. But I think the reason the reason why senator Steele Johnson sent an inquiry was successful, and and what I'm hoping to get out of this parliamentary inquiry is actually listening to the numerous people that have lived experiences, the numerous medical health care professionals, and and have record like, a comprehensive list of findings and recommendations.

Based on people that know what they're talking about, not just politicians that think that they know what they're talking about, and and then having and then recommending to government action based on those things. So so you look like you're about to say something, Rob.

Yeah. So I just it actually it it leads to my first question, so I might ask it now. Yeah. Given the inquiry look. We'll go back a step. Did you say that four there's four psychiatrists that four psychiatrists that can describe oh, sorry, diagnose people with ADHD in Tasmania?

I think it's I think it's four. It's it's it's some way it's, like, three or four or five, but it's a very, very, very small number. Am I for a population of 500 something thousand people. That's so let me It's a very limited So from the from the inquiry.

Does that what sort of information did you get in terms of being able to reduce the waiting list? Sorry. Just got a bit of noise in the background. Reduce the waiting list and streamline the process. You mentioned GPs doing scripts. What else would have been come involved?

Part of it is look. There's we're actually at at the early stage of the inquiry. The inquiry has only just sort of started. We've just got the submissions in. Submissions have closed, so we're still going through all the the written submissions. And and then we had the first hearing, I think, a fortnight from now. So the so we're still at the early stages of of the of that process, but a lot of it is about, you know, giving GPs more involvement, standardization of of of the treatment. You know, if if somebody presents with this, have some some level of standardization, making it easy to access the medication. There's there's a lot of difficulties people have been interacting with the pharmaceutical.

The PSB, the Pharmaceutical Services Board. Apologies. But there's there's numerous, numerous, numerous recommendations. One of the ones that is has come to us, which is also a recommendation under the senate inquiry, was a recommendation to adopt the guidelines for for for assessment and and and treatment. So that's and that's pretty comprehensive on its own. And they're and they're great places to to start at at at the very least, but a big part of it is just acknowledging that this is something that we can't just take a status quo approach to. So it's it's, you know what do you call it's something that I'm hoping will will will actually.

Help really identify those main headline issues and also those those little issues that people that work in the medical health care space know where those where those touch points are. Like, I I don't know that. I'm not a medical health care expert. I just know that there's from firsthand experience from talking to people where where those difficulties are. You know? And, you know, it's just even giving people that you know, I think we're in a lucky stage in 2024. Five, six, ten years ago, I think if I was to come out publicly or others were to come out publicly and say, I've got ADHD, that could be the end of a career. People won't people won't take you seriously. And I think we're now in a place where we can you know, I can talk about it.

And it's it's been a positive thing for me to talk about. You know, I've spent a fair bit of time with impostor syndrome. You know, you're sitting in in council, sitting in the Tasmanian parliament, and, you know, have had people, you know, take video captures of me posting on Facebook with of me fidgeting and, you know, looking around and, you know, picking and saying, oh, look. Simon's not paying attention. Simon doesn't care what's going on. He's just, you know, buggering around. You know? Not why I actually was listening. If if if anything, if I'm trying to look like I'm listening, I'm focusing more on listening than I am on actually actually paying attention. Right? So that's the that's the ironic thing there. The.

But, you know, that's it's something that, you know, people that are going through a difficult time with this need to know that it's it's something that they can be spoken about. And I think a lot of people have found just the the conversation in the news and and and whatnot that's occurred around this. And likewise, with the senate inquiry, it has just been empowering if for nothing else other than to give them an opportunity to say, yeah. This like, this is what I'm this is what I'm going through. You know? It's there's a big part of this whole issue is that there's just so much such a huge lack of understanding.

Around the issue. There's it's you know, that's where that stigma comes from. There's people that say, oh, it's just a bunch of hyperactive kids that need more discipline. You know, I grew up in a traditional Greek household, and I'll tell you, I've got plenty of discipline. Didn't cure anything. You know, there's we we announced some policies during the state election, though I think minor in the scheme of what needs to be done in the space, but I think beneficial. And, you know, I posted it posted it to my social media, and one of the comments that I got were, you know, I don't wanna sound cynical or nothing, but, you know, it just seems a bit funny that, you know.

ADHD didn't seem to exist before the nineteen nineties, and now suddenly everybody seems to have ADHD. You know? And that one of those sort of comments and, you know, the reality is ADHD didn't exist before the nineties the same way gravity didn't exist before Isaac Newton discovered it. It's always been there. So, look, I've got a lot I've got a lot more I can say. Correct. Correct. And so, look, I've I've got a lot more that I could say, but I'm actually really interested in in the people have questions and and and just get a conversation going. You know, I think it's really important that people use the where we are in 2024 where there's there's an.

Openness to have these conversations to to to use that to drive some change to make things better because I don't think that there's improvements that need to be made in Tasmania. There are, but it's a it's it's a know, we need to catch up in Australia. We need to catch up in in in I don't I don't know I don't know if there's any country that's that's kind of gotten it right yet. We need to we need to be able to talk about these things if you wanna get to where we need to be so that people that need support are able to get it and live fulfilling lives. So I'm in your hands, Rob.

Yeah. Yeah. So well, when you talked about stigma and the importance of reducing and hopefully removing stigma, what sort of strategies would you recommend that we undertake with the general public, but also the medical fraternity as well in terms of going about reducing that stigma?

I think a big part of it is just talking about it, and I think the more people I don't know about from the medical side. It's not something I'm like, I don't know too much about about the perspective of that side, but I think, you know, we've got we've got, you know, Australian celebrities and comedians and act actors and actresses and, you know, myself and senator still John and others that are that live that work in in in the public roles that are now coming out talking about it. I think the more people that are able to do that and to to to just show that vulnerability, speak about what it's what their experiences are.

Because I think so many people see ADHD as hyperactive kids bouncing off the wall causing trouble in class. Like, that's what, you know, people that's what people the everyday person that doesn't know about it thinks that's what ADHD is. You know, that's a person that can't concentrate. It's a person that doesn't, you know, procreate doesn't do things that they're supposed to do and and, you know, is disruptive and and and and and all that. But to see, you know, you've got senators, you've got actor actors and actresses, the people that you see on TV and respect them, like, they've got it. They're they're successful people. It's not just knows a lot of people.

Correct. You do. And it's not it's not it's not just that stereotype. It's it's, you know, it's not how you know, my my hyperactivity often isn't outward at hyperactivity. It's me not being able to shut off or slow my brain down. And, you know, the days where I'm you know, where my symptoms are at their worst, I actually, I accomplished almost nothing that day, but then just get home exhausted, feeling like I've, you know, worked an eighteen hour shift, but I've done almost nothing because my I feel like I've a car spinning its tires, you know, like, you're not you're not going anywhere, but you're revving to the red line. You know, that that that looks like someone that's sluggish and tired, but it's actually hyperactivity.

You know? So it's it's the more people are able to just talk about it, the more people that hear those conversations can understand what it actually is rather than what people think that it is. And because a lot of the misunderstanding and stigma just comes from an understanding of ADHD, I think, that existed in the year 2000 when people were watching those current affair videos about riddle and turning your kids into zombies. That's what people Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's I know people that think that's what their view of ADHD is.

That analogy you had with the car is is an interesting one. My my son's got ADHD. He's a very bright boy. Very bright boy. Let's say he's like a Ferrari, a thousand horsepower, but bull tires. Is worse when it rains. You know? But, also, that same kid has extraordinary ability to solve problems that others don't as well because he does think laterally. He does have many hypotheses at once. It's just pulling it all together and putting it in a meaningful format. So it's it's a it's a blessing as well. But yeah.

If you can manage it and control it and and and and and treat it, then, you know, it's it's you know, I've especially when you have that, you know, not to say this it feels weird saying this about myself. When you've got that kind of bright bright kid with ADHD that's got an above average intelligence, you get that. You know, it's one of the most painful things to hear is when people say, oh, you're so smart, but you're so dumb. Like, how do you you know, you have someone as smart as you not not able to do these things, and how can you not concentrate when you're you know, you're able to do all these things and you stuff you can't pay your bills upon time. You know? What sort of you know? You know, it's it's such it makes it it's.

It's like people have this you know, because because they think, oh, this person and it's so common. You have so many kid kids and people with ADHD that are are really bright. So you have this expectation, oh, that person's smart, but how come you how come you you you're such a, you know it's like a such a missed potential sort of person. It's such a common story. And being able to understand what they're going through is, I think, a, the best way to identify that sometimes, you know, how many people have gone through life without ever knowing that they've had ADHD.

Yeah. And it just that that's just who they are. You know? When you say to some when you say to a kid or an adult, you know, you have people, oh, he was so smart. He just never never got there in life. He never he never did what he was, you know He just needs to apply himself. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. That that's you know, telling a kid, you know, oh, you're bright, but you just need to apply yourself or, you know, if only you you fight you pay more attention. It's telling someone who has a medical you know, it's a medical condition. It's a mental health condition that the issues that they're experiencing are are one of moral failure because they're choosing not to apply themselves.

And then the impact that has on someone, and you're telling it's like, oh, no. It's your it was your choice not to pay attention. It was your choice not to do, you know, not to do the thing you were supposed to do. You know, it's yeah. Sure. But, like, that doesn't work that Yeah.

Yeah. You you can you can promise to yourself I'm going to you can promise to yourself I'm gonna you know, tomorrow, I'm gonna do all these things that I've been kept been to do, And you're not lying to yourself. You're actually you're 100% mean it, but once you get in the car and try and drive off, those tires are spinning. You know, that's it's that and then people say, oh, people say, oh, you chose not to drive off. You know, that's not to use that to use that analogy. And it's for for for for a lot of people having that, you know, they're being told that what.

The the circumstances they're in are a result of their own choices and moral failure. So it's that that's a like, it's a harmful thing, but it comes from people not understanding what it's like.

So I just got one question on the feed. It said that you mentioned that it was the early days of the Tasmanian inquiry. What are the next steps, and what does that look like, and what does success look like for the Tasmanian inquiry?

So that's a really good question. The where we're at at the moment, submissions have closed. So we've got about 60 something submissions that are in the process of getting uploaded onto Tasmanian parliament website. That that's group it's groups like EdPA. It's groups like the College of Physicians. It's then also people with lived experiences talking about the difficulties they've faced and and and also and also the government submission. You know, that's some of them are a page. Some of them are fifty, sixty pages. So there's a bit of reading to do. I've done a bit of reading already, but in typical ADHD what do you call it? As a typical person with ADHD, I'm gonna do most of that reading probably the day before the first hearing. But the.

First hearing is on the October 18. Fine. I I finished I finished writing my my speech for this on Tuesday, which I thought was actually quite good for me. The Yeah. But we are going to October 18, we start the hearings. There'll be about three, four sessions of hearings. It is also the most so it's a first for the Tasmanian parliament as far as actually changing the way that we do our inquiry process to make it more accessible and friend and and friendly for people with ADHD. So we rather than rather than expecting everyone to give a fulsome written submission, which most submissions which most inquiries do, people can say, you know, obviously, because for some people, the idea of writing a.

Submission to a parliament's worse than a university assignment, which, you know, it's it's a it's a big thing. You can just say, hey. I've got you can send an email to the inquiry. My name's such and such. I've got ADHD. I'd love to talk about my experiences, and and that's being included. We're doing round tables that aren't going to be livestreamed or publicized so that people that aren't comfortable speaking to a committee in a hearing setting can still get their views and their experiences out there. And we we're doing quite a few things like that to make it as easy and as comfortable for people that are, you know, feeling a bit vulnerable talking about themselves like this as well as just.

Making these submissions in the context of having the symptoms of ADHD to be able to do that. So that's, I think, a really positive thing just for the Tasmanian parliament. Then we'll write a report. We'll have findings. We'll have recommendations. And my hope would be that the recommendations complement the recommendations of the senate inquiry. And importantly, the next step after that, and this is, I think, the really important thing. It's why I think it's so important that this hasn't been a partisan political issue. Yeah. Is that the government's and I say this as I say this as a member of the governing party. So it's important the government's actually taking take on board and seriously consider and then hopefully.

Start adopting or look or seriously considering some of the recommendations that come out of this. I've really avoided getting getting political as much as possible for the reasons I've already said, but the I'm not I can't remember what date the can't remember what date last year. I think it was early last year. The senate inquiry tabled its report into the to the to Australian parliament had a range of recommendations. A lot of them are really important recommendations, and the government hasn't hasn't written a response to the inquiry, let alone looked at adopting any of the recommendations. So it's all great and amazing and fantastic to make, you know, make all these findings, do all these work, give all these recommendations.

But it needs to be something that the government's willing to actually take on board and and seriously consider adopting some of those recommendations. Otherwise, it's it's kind of pointless. But so far, the premier, the ministers have all been very, supportive of this whole process. So I've I've got a lot of hope, and I and I hope there's, at the very least, something that helps kick into gear some of those changes and some of those adoptions at the at the Commonwealth level.

Well, sir, thank you very, very much. I just wanna say that that the work that you have done so far and continue to do is an inspiration for the for the ADHD community because there is no way that we can challenge come rise to the challenge and celebrate the the pluses as well of ADHD if we don't have friends and supporters and boosters in all parts of community, particularly in parliament. So it's a it's a major effort. It's an inspiration. We thank you very much. And as we get more questions in, we'll forward them to you because I think the the Please do. Please do. Yeah. Dialogue. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But thank you, sir. Thank you. You. Busy portfolio. I'll get let you I do. I do. It's a busy day. And and thanks so much for having me on. It's it's it's an honor to to to have been invited on here, and thanks for all the work you guys are doing, and I look forward to watching some of the other presenters.

Honored to have you, sir. Thank you very much.