Alex is extraordinary. So he has ADHD. He is one of the pioneers of social media content and sort of I presume I have understood my little con conundrum I had there. At 21, he founded Unilad and Lab Bible. He then fought and won a legal battle over ownership and successfully sold it. He has held a number of senior leadership positions, now runs his own podcast ADHD Chatter, and as again again built up a following of billions in conversation. This is gonna be a conversation with me about his entrepreneurial journey and what's happened. He it's a fireside chat star. He he is extraordinary. Like, he's done it multiple times, and I'm absolutely thrilled to have him here. Hi, Alex.

Hi, Henry. How are you? I'm great with hearing loud and clear. It's I am well. I think I'm looking pretty fresh for that now. No. My, what, twenty second hour or twenty third hour at this stage. I was gonna say congratulations.

It must be quite an endurance exercise for you, this this conference.

Yeah. It's my city idea that a twenty four hour conference would sort of be an interesting thing. I think the idea of bringing other ADHD charities around the world, talking to a global audience, getting global speakers, like, is a wonderful thing and and has has worked. And particularly, creating sort of coalition of ADHD charities to make it make a difference, which is which has been great. Right. But this is not about me much as I'd like it to be. This is about you. You are amazing. Like, it's like, you you are the you're epitomized. Think in America, people make their business in it's the stories I made it in the garage. We all look at them going, have you got a garage? Street fucking. You did it in your student.

Used to your student room. Like, do wanna tell us or could you share with us that start? Like, what what you did?

Yeah. So I went to university in 2010 after really feeling quite lost and not sure what else to do, I was terrified of the education system from day one. My earliest memory of being in school was one of the other kids saying to me, you you could could be be one of the cool kids, Alex, if you weren't so weird. And that was probably when I was about six or seven years old. The following year, I had my first anxiety attack in a classroom. I remember sat at the back of the classroom quite happily daydreaming, and the teacher, out of nowhere, pointed at me and said, Alex, do you know the answer to this question? And all of the kids naturally turned around to look at me.

And in that moment, I felt my heart rate going up. And I I remember abruptly standing up and running out of the classroom, and luckily, I found someone in the corridor. And I and I said, please help me. I'm having a heart attack. Call an ambulance. And by the time the paramedic turned up, I had calmed down, and they had reassured me that, of course, I wasn't having a heart attack. I was having my first anxiety attack. And it was that was the juxtaposition between how I felt at school when I was in an environment that was very overstimulating for me, very noisy, very bright against how I was presenting at home and in an environment that was friendly for me. When I was at home, I was I was being very enterprising from a young age, starting.

Businesses. I remember when I was about eight going through my parents' board games and and finding out all of the addresses written on them and all of the all of the companies that manufactured them and spending the summer holidays designing my own my own board game, making all the little pieces and designing the board, writing out all the instructions. And And I I sent sent my designs off to all these companies, and several weeks went past. I didn't hear anything. But then I eventually heard back from one, and they said, unfortunately, we're not looking for any new board game designs, but always lean into that entrepreneurial spirit. And that sort of continue continued really for the rest of my education.

That sort of juxtaposition between what I was like at school and what I was like at at home. When the time came to come to university, I really just went because I was convinced that's what everyone did. I went to university. I sat in my first lecture, and the the lecturer didn't need to point at me and say anything. I felt that anxiety coming back, and I remember, again, leaving the lecture theater and walking off this anxiety attack in the in the streets of Oxford. But I went back to my bedroom at university, and in my first year, I I started a business called Quick Pizza, and it was it was a late night delivery service for students. And I impulsively spent half my student loan on this six foot freezer.

Carried it into my room with my housemate, and filled it with Tesco pizzas, made a Facebook page called Quick Pizza. And if a student wanted a pizza in the middle of the night, they would text me. I would throw it in the oven and eventually, I had about four students working for me, cycling around Oxford, delivering pizzas to students in the middle of the night. But then the university shut me down because I didn't have a food safety hygiene certificate. It was my second year that social media sort of really blew up and started becoming dominant on university campuses, and I remember just becoming absolutely obsessed with it.

I can't explain the feeling when I became aware of Facebook. I remember sat in my bedroom for for weeks quite literally to the point where my friends and family was quite concerned for for my well-being because it was very unusual behavior, I think, to to to witness for for someone who wasn't who was you know, thought a student should be going out and being social and all this, and I was just sat in my room absolutely obsessed with Facebook and growing Facebook pages. And that's when I started Lab Bible and Unilad, and I dropped out of university about a month later. I remember getting my first email from Domino's Pizza saying, ironically, another a pizza company that was doing the delivery service well.

Offering me x amount of money to to promote on Lab Bible and that was it. I impulsively just dropped out of university and and went to grow it back in my parents' house.

This is wonderful. What do you hold the entrepreneurial story there? So they they I just wasn't aware of the pizza. I thought that crikey. Like, when he talks about being in school and and, you know, the teacher, it's a it's a really great example of a teacher instead of helping punishing and instead of understanding you had an attention problem, just deciding to try and, like, essentially publicly humiliate you into a heightened state so that you didn't do that again and that's just not being possible and having your first anxiety attack is yeah. What do you think about that teaching? Like, what do you think when you look back at that?

I've been back to the school, and I've I've met the teacher. Again, you know, no hard feelings whatsoever. I've done talks at my old schools, which was amazing to do talks on ADHD and neurodiversity. You know, we've come a long way say, from it's just thirty years ago. I'm 36 now. And that just wasn't the conversation back then. They thought, no one knew what was wrong with me. There's more to that story. You know, my parents that really was my first anxiety attack. In the months that followed that, it got worse. My parents moved me from school to school. Nobody recognized that it was an issue, that there was something going on in terms of overstimulation, anxiety.

They just thought if we just move me to another school, that will solve it because that seemed like a logical solution at the end to that problem. But, of course, it wasn't because the problem was well, not the problem, but the issue was inside my head, and that followed me no matter what school I went to. But now I've spoken to I've spoken to that teacher and, you know, I've I've given them a hug, you know, in in the years recent years, and there's no hard feelings whatsoever. I think they're they're so happy to to hear how far the conversations come and and just amazed to see that conversation is happening now. And we can look back at that through the lens of neurodiversity and and.

Now I suspect undiagnosed a d a no. I know undiagnosed ADHD and and to see that what what actually was going on. You know? And it wasn't just me being distracted or or fidgeting. I was doing those things so I could pay attention to what the teacher was saying. You know, I'm staring out the window and tapping my foot or or fidgeting, like, we were all told off for, is actually what I needed to do in order to pay attention and to take in what the teacher was saying. But, of course, that went against the sort of stereotypical visual of what a well behaved pupil should look like and hence, you know.

The the telling off that ensued and therefore the the feeling like your your your you need to correct or change how you are in order to to not be told off, which, you know, we know is masking and and the dire consequences that can have in the long term. But, yeah, that was thirty years ago. I know we've come a long way.

It's still You know, you you say that, but that's that story is getting repeated over this country still. Like, it's I think the energy points about fidgeting and moving, there's a real attitude for lots of people that for the hyperactivity, it's kinda like a cat. Zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, and then relax. And you'll see whereas person so I have some of the age of ADHD. You know, I I I have I have to vent my energy all the time. There needs to be some kind of movement for me all the time, and it doesn't matter if I've done a lot of exercise. For some reason, I'm currently playing with a hosepipe attachment. That's a nice little swap. Like, what are the things we're playing with in our hands? That looks like a nice smooth shiny stone.

It's a thumb stone which one of my podcast guests gave me because they noticed that I was moving my hands. They they spoke to me afterwards and suggested, and stopped using it since. It's brilliant. It's just it it's you know, I don't like the word fidget toys tremendously. I think, you know, I'm but it it's it does help me channel that energy that if I don't channel channel it it into something, it can often end up in my head, which can therefore create a lot of anxiety and and an inability to focus on on what is gonna That's that's such a lovely phrase.

Like, if I don't have it, it'll end up in my head. A lot of people talk about the hyperactivity in their brain, the movement of the ideas of the thoughts.

Yeah. Absolutely. And I, you know, I think exercise for me is one of the and just movement, and this is how I create movement when I'm not able to go off go, you know, physically, like, situations like this or in meetings, which are although I advocate for walking and movement in meetings, often that's not possible in reality. So Other.

People some other people don't like it so much. They don't like this. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, little it's called a thumb stone and Oh, nice. Very beneficial. There are two things that are three things amazing about it. One, obviously, that it's it's not really working for you. Two, that you've not lost it. And three, you've not gone past a body of water and looked at it and gone, man, this would skip so well.

Now I'm thinking there's any lakes nearby.

Right. You've talked about finding you talked about leaving university, which your parents must have been thrilled about. The we'll skip past their react what was their reaction? Conversation. Hi, mom, dad. So.

It was a very awkward drive back from Oxford to Eastbourne, which is my hometown and where they lived because I was giving up on a degree which, you know, is still in a lot of families, the the the the thing to aspire to achieve, and I was giving up all of that for a silly Facebook page, which there was no precedent for. There was no case study of Facebook pages turning into businesses. But my parents have always supported me and always believed in me, which I think is a massive privilege and a massive obviously, an advantage. You know, there was no there was no suggestion that it wouldn't work. They very much picked me up and allowed me to to work with it. So I have to give them tremendous credit in this situation.

Think many others would have had more pressure on them to stay in university and to not pursue a a Facebook page, which Facebook didn't exist twelve months prior, and there were certainly no examples of it turning into a business where you can make money from it. But they they completely supported me. We moved back I moved back to my hometown, and I and I started building it over the next twelve months. This is where I fell into issue because the creativity that enabled me and the impulsivity that enabled me to start these two brands was brilliant. And I strongly associate, I think, my ability to spot patterns and and predict trends on social media was a big factor in the early stages of those two social media brands.

What I wasn't so good at was other areas that are required in a in a scaling business, like accountancy and dealing with brand negotiations. So I needed help because I had Uniloud on one screen and I had Lab Bible on another screen. And I put out an advert for some assistance, and these two people responded. And I met up with them in a bar in Brighton. And I remember that day so well. We walked from the train station down to this bar on Brighton Pier, and my intuition was screaming at me that day that these two people were not on my side. But because I'm a massive people pleaser and have and not so much anymore, but at the time massive people pleaser and terrified of confrontation.

I signed the bit of paper that was presented to me that day, which was a partnership agreement. We were all gonna go into this business thirty three percent three ways, and I signed it. I didn't listen to my my intuition that was telling me these these two people were perhaps sinister. And I signed a bit of paper, and a week later, I had been kicked out of the business, completely removed from the the Facebook page, the bank accounts, everything associated with the business I had now longer I no longer had access to. And that was a real moment. I remember just staring at my computer screen recognizing that I had been removed from everything and the terror that I felt, like the anxiety.

And I buried my head in the sand for about a month. I didn't know what to do. Eventually, my my friend who was a had some legal advice, legal background, looked at the partnership agreement and encouraged me and and persuaded me to go to see a solicitor finally. And I did. And I remember the solicitor looked at this and he said, well, firstly, they are not legally allowed to do what they have done, but if you want to fight this, this is going to end up in court. This is gonna be this is gonna go to trial. And I remember when my solicitor told me that, the image of me standing on the witness box in front of a room full of the press.

Their lawyers, my lawyers. My mind sort of flashed forward into the future and I and I envisaged myself stood on the witness box with everyone looking at me. And, of course, my mind flashed back to my experience at school I got in the car, left my solicitor's office, and went and bought a bottle of vodka. I can only tell you what the nurse told me the following morning when I woke up in hospital. She said that members of the public had found me in an alleyway clutching a bottle of vodka, and they tried to approach me. I tripped, slipped, and hit my head on the wall, and they they called an ambulance. And as the nurse was telling me this, I remember feeling this shame and anxiety come back to me, I knew that the only.

Well, I thought at the time the only solution to this anxiety was more alcohol. And I remember trying to stand up from the hospital bed running out of the ward to the nurse saying, Alex, where are you going? But I ran past her, tried to escape the hospital, and security me. And before I knew it, I was in the back of a police car with my parents looking at me through the window with this look of fear and desperation in their eyes. What was wrong with me, and they didn't know how to help me. That took me to AA, Alcoholics Anonymous. That was the start of that was was the the first first time time I heard the four letters ADHD in AA meetings, but I didn't think that much of it. Fast forward a couple of months, it was the trial in London.

And I got through the trial. You know, I had to be chaperoned from the hotel room to the court to make sure that I didn't go and buy more vodka. That was the seriousness of the the the compulsion that I had towards dealing with anxiety at the time. But I stood on the witness box, and I answered the questions. I had to take numerous breaks to to allow myself to to manage the anxiety. I had a number of anxiety attacks in the in the toilet, in the courtroom, but I got through it. And fast forward again a couple of months still, and my solicitor called me and he said, Alex, are you on your own? And I said, yes. And he said, you've won everything. You've won both of the companies back. And, of course, it was a huge five year legal battle.

But, ultimately, for me, was a massive mental health battle that that that nearly cost my life in on numerous occasions through through alcohol, and that was back in 2000 and 2018.

How are you it's an incredible it's an incredible story. It's obviously awful. How are you doing with alcohol now?

Yeah. A lot better. A lot better. I mean, it's it's it's with I have so much more awareness now around what conditions that I'm able to drink in and what I what what I'm not able to drink in. I mean, if I'm completely honest, I I I refer to myself as a an an alcoholic, a recovering alcoholic, because if I have a drink, it sets off this compulsion that means that I'm unable to stop drinking. And even still, because, you know, there's more to that story, I thought that I was drinking in response to the court case anxiety, which I very much was doing at the time, but I booked a holiday to Las Vegas after I won the court case thinking all's well, all's good, all's amazing.

And I nearly died in Las Vegas. I couldn't stop drinking, you know, and there was no court case anxiety there. I had won. Everything was great. I was, you know, a young legal winner in the press. Everything looked fantastic, but I was getting kicked out of casinos in Las Vegas and breaking up with my partner because I couldn't control my drinking. There was more there. There was something going on in my head that I still wasn't aware of at that stage.

Wow. Yeah. And what's what did you do next? So you got it back. I I don't quite understand how that works. I'd say because they've taken everything the whole thing from you. Do you suddenly because you go to Vegas, so who's running the the company now? Like, how is it functioning?

Yes. It's a good question. So I never actually went back to take control of the the brands because I had been out of the companies for for five or six years during the legal process. So when I won the court case, there was a process of essentially, it's boring details, but there was a there was a third party company that kind of went in to manage the the brands brands during the transitional period of to to make sure because there were hundreds of jobs, you know, at stake, and and there was a company that needed to continue to run. So there was a third party company that went in to maintain the momentum.

The decision was ultimately made for for the for us to for me to sell the company because I had been out of it for so long and I couldn't just walk in having no real understanding of the different mechanisms because because I had been out of this for so long. So we I sold the company after I had won the court case.

Which is a it's a big deal to make such an you know, that that kind of decision. And obviously, on on, you know, on achieving that. I'm I'm just gonna do a very quick recap because I think people might miss, like, how a Facebook page has value. Could you just outline to people, like, how that works?

Yeah. So, I mean, it was so so much more than a Facebook page by that stage. It was it was a it was a network of face Facebook pages, Instagram accounts, TikTok, YouTube channel of hundreds of millions of followers. And and that that exposure, that reach to that audience is very valuable to brands who want to reach them. So essentially, it became a marketing agency of of dealing with brands. I mean, Domino's Pizza, the very earliest one, but companies, brands that wanted exposure to those hundreds of millions of followers, there would be a there would be a a a brand partnership that occurred. So that's where the that's where the revenue came from.

Okay. Thank you. I thought it was useful for people to to to depending on their their their their understanding. Right. So you've sold it. Like, what did you put actually, like, I just wanna scroll back. Was it like during those years? Like, you're watching it build and build and build. What were you doing? Like, how are you occupying yourself? Or is it entirely lost into into drink? Like.

Yeah. So the drink came in in waves, really. There were moments that that because if you have if you zoom out and look at the legal process over five years, I don't know how much you wanna go into the the boring details, but it's Yeah. Yeah. There's there's there's long periods of of very much of where nothing much happens. You know, at the early stages, you send a legal letter, and then you might wait three months. You get a reply, and it's just letter after letter, and that can go on for years. And then towards the end, it escalated to court hearings in London, negotiation.

Meetings in legal offices, and then eventually the trial. So the the drinking escalated as as we got towards the end. During the first two, three years, I had to find a job to pay for my legal fees. I got a job in London at a marketing agency. Funnily enough, doing essentially what I would be doing if I had control of the companies that I was fighting for. So I was building Facebook pages in a in a company called Hello You in London. I did that for a year. And then I got a job in funnily enough, I got a job in a a marketing agency in Manchester, and I was brought in to grow their Facebook pages because I because I needed help. So I I went up to Manchester, and I remember sat in the office. And.

I it was a very it was a very busy office, a very loud there was a table tennis table, there was a dog running around, there was music playing, there was an office slide, you go down into a ball pit. A very fun office traditionally. But I remember just feeling absolutely overstimulated and paralyzed mentally in that environment. I was unable to grow their Facebook. Within three months, I'd grown it from zero to 5,000. And then I moved on to another marketing agency shortly afterwards. I had to leave that one. And in this new agency, I asked them if I could, a, work downstairs where it was quiet in the canteen sometimes, I could sometimes work from home. And, ultimately, if if you could trust me on my outcomes.

Judge me on my outcomes rather than my processes. And my new boss said yes. And in the same time period, I had grown their Facebook from from zero to 8,000,000 followers. And it's a very, I think, clear example of how very basic accommodations can make a massive difference to someone's output. So I was working in that agency then. That's the hello that's the new agency in in in London that I worked for. So I was working jobs, raised having to having to earn money to pay for my legal fees to win my company back. After After I won the what what led me to get my ADHD diagnosis, after I won and sold the companies after the court case.

I I wanted to start a podcast called Walk Away Wiser. It was to be a business podcast, and I remember having the idea. And I impulsively spent a small fortune on seven cameras. I dismantled my bed. I was gonna turn my bedroom into a soundproof studio, And I did it. And I ordered all of the foam panels, tripods. I hired a producer. I hired a director. And then when the postman delivered all of my camera equipment about three days later, I remember sat on my sofa just looking at this this pyramid of Amazon boxes with no interest in this podcast anymore. And I couldn't understand the difference between my enthusiasm three days ago compared to the absolute lack of interest I had in this project at that moment.

And the producer that I hired said to me, so when did you get your ADHD diagnosis? And I looked at him and said, what do you mean? And that was the the the second time I had heard this those four letters, and that's what started me on my journey. And shortly after that, the the psychiatrist told me that my ADHD was was clear as hell, I had I had so much. And after my diagnosis, that's when I wanted to learn about ADHD and I thought because I had so much time, I might as well make the conversations public and that's how I started ADHD Chatter. And funnily enough, the difference between that podcast and why ADHD Chatter as a podcast has worked, I believe, and why my original concept failed is because I I went too fast, too early.

Walkaway Wiser. I I very much all or nothing, and I burned myself out. I became overwhelmed. Whereas with Walkaway Wiser sorry. With ADHD Chatter, I started very small, very slowly in my office. I didn't spend a fortune on cameras. I didn't book huge, complicated guests requiring logistics to get them to a studio. I just put it on my computer. I did it virtually. I booked a couple of guests of people I speak to on LinkedIn, and I did the first 20 episodes in my office at home on my computer like this. And then once I had learned the basics, I then scaled up to a studio in Battersea, which is where I now film the podcast. And a year and a half later, you know, it's it's 3,000,000.

Followers and and hundreds of thousands of listeners every month. And I think it's so important with ADHD. Whatever we do, whether it's business or a hobby or a new project, is to really try and put a breaker between the initial excitement and going all or nothing. I refer to it as like, this metaphorical idea shelf where if we have an idea, we don't we we try and force ourselves to not action it straight away. We put it on a metaphorical shelf, the idea shelf, and if it's still pulling at our interest two weeks later, then then there might be something there. That means perhaps that idea is actually connected with our core intrinsic values.

Which therefore means it will be a we'll be able to sustain it because our motivation will be the long term as opposed to actioning an idea based on short term excitement and impulsivity, which, I look from my experience, particularly with ADHD and my experience and the people I've spoken to in my podcast is we're very good at starting stuff. We can very much impulsively buy the domain, do all the branding like I did with that podcast in a very short space of time, but then we burn out and ultimately abandon the idea. Whereas if we try and put a breaker between the idea and actually taking that first step, then we can really diff separate the ideas that are being fueled by our intrinsic motivations and core values.

Versus the ones that are being fueled by a short term excitement a short term excitement?

I think it's a really valuable point. It's really interesting. So when we look at sort of the positives of ADHD, one of the slugs is on creativity. And part of how that works is the impulsivity to do makes us more likely to have created to to to create it. There's no point having an idea if you don't actually it's nothing. But it's a double edged sword because if that idea is great, then wonderful. If that is not great, well, then you've just lost a lot of money and time. And I think that you often get sort of taught and and and negative, which is you should pause before you do something, count to 10 or do you know, take take longer.

And it's very much framed around stopping you doing bad things. I really like the way you reframe that into a positive, that you put things on the idea shelf. And if it's still of interest at the time later, then maybe it's worth looking at harder because it's like it's it's sort of past that initial threshold, and it's a great way to filter the chaos of the ideas of all the the things we're thinking of. I also when we talk about we did a we did we've got a section coming up on to dos, doing the to dos. And one of the things the coaches there talk about is that to do this get overwhelmed. You're constantly trying to the memory issues that often have a huge.

Number of racing brain and all the ideas. I mean, this list gets just saturated and becomes a new page, a new list, new this. And and if you have a a dumping ground list of of lists for that, your much better phrasing of a of an idea shelf where you put things on the idea shelf and let them let them mature, then it stops your your main list getting overwhelmed because you've got a place for this stuff. And so I think it's a really, really powerful idea from multiple levels.

I think it's also really important to say that this has that this has to happen simultaneously with with a sort of continuous effort to build one's self awareness. At the end of the day, really journal, really meditate or weekly, however often you can do it, and and really ask yourself and honestly ask yourself what happened in that time period that day that made you feel happy? What made you feel sad? What did you enjoy? What did you struggle with? And if you do that often enough, a, you can build up an arsenal of self awareness that give you an edge in many areas of life, but also you'll be able to understand what though, what items on your idea shelf are connected.

With your core values. It's so important with especially, I think, with with the ADHD community is when we embark on new projects, the ones that are gonna sustain our attention are the ones that are gonna be connected to our intrinsic core beliefs. So we have to work on understanding what those beliefs are, especially when so many of us have have are disconnected from our true selves through a lifetime of masking and all of that, which is a different, you know, conversation, but it is connected. So I think so many people in the community don't understand or haven't got awareness or clearance when they actually are through.

Through reasons that aren't out through that are out of their control and are not their fault because they've been felt to feel different their entire life. I think for the ADHD community and neurodivergent community in general, it's particularly important to work on those self awareness exercises as and as often as you can to ensure that you have a definition of who you really are because only when you have that can you can you embark on a project because a project that's gonna sustain your attention enough for it to turn into a long term success.

Knowing yourself is, like, is one of the critical aspects of being successful with ADHD. Like, way we try and frame this is everyone's seat has to be positive, you know, has to play to their strengths, also their weaknesses. And for us, that's more so. And stronger strengths, weak weaknesses, and we gotta know them. And we we are gonna be wanting to do things differently. I thought your vignette talking about working and recognizing you need to do it differently. You have to be in the quiet bit. Have to work from working from home. It's gonna make a big difference in being able to have that happen. We've come to the end of time, and I was supposed to say, like, what what's next? Like, what what do you hope for in the the next period?

So my plan is to continue building the podcast. I think the podcast is is such a passion project of mine, and I think my motivation comes from the injustice that I feel that so many people in the community face, you know, fueled by my fuel it has to be, I think, fueled by your own experience partly, and it has been by my experience mainly at school. I wanna continue building the podcast. I wanna continue inviting a diverse range of guests onto the podcast, a mixture of life story episodes and academics to really get a a blend of lived experience. Good one coming on.

We have Jessica coming on shortly. He's incredible.

I think, you know, if you if you Google ADHD or you ask a doctor, they'll tell you it's a neurodevelopmental difference disorder characterized by traits of impulsivity and forgetfulness. But I genuinely believe it's a I think it's, you know, a lifetime of being told you're too much and you're too sensitive and not understanding why you have to adjust who you are, shape shift in order to fit in. I want people to have that realization as early as possible so they don't go a lifetime of pretending to be someone that they're not. And the earlier, the better. We can all realize that that we're not broken. We are just perhaps a little bit different and that we have we have always been enough.

You know, that's my goal for the podcast to provide a platform that broadcasts that message time and time again.

That's a wonderful it's a wonderful uplifting note to end on. You've been amazing. I've I've really been grateful for this, and I found it absolutely fascinating. I had and your, yeah, your candid honesty and deep thought in your answers is just wonderful. I've I've learned a lot, and I'm sure I'll have to. So thank you. And thank you for obviously what you're doing in ADHD chatter and the podcast. It's a it's a big deal. I have to say goodbye, which makes me sad. But thank you so much. You have a great rest of your day, and thank you.