Hi.

Hi. How do I share the PowerPoint?

Gosh. Thank you for joining. I'm a little worried. I couldn't see you in the schedule. So forgive me. I guess, Nicole, I really wanted to take the time, to make sure that we introduced you properly given, again, that you have had and have a vast and varied, experience, and knowing that when we were speaking to Microsoft, we didn't necessarily get to hear a lot, about your, previous experience. So, if I if I may so, Nicole, you're a dynamic advocate for ADHD in Australia and our corporate programs lead. You've got a BA in laws from Monash University, expertise in anti discrimination employment and industrial relations law, passionate about improving experience for employees with disabilities, and obviously working with organizations.

To achieve safe and inclusive empowering workplaces. Well, and we can't wait to hear how, from from your perspective in and around a legal complaint being too late. So over to you, Nicole. Have you got your presentation ready to go?

This will be interesting. So was.

Nothing like tap dance on the on on a live stream. I also have it if we need it. Okay. Bear with me.

I've got it on the screen, but I'm unsure how to to share it.

So just that little screen there in the top in the bottom. You see the share screen?

Oh, okay.

Well, while we're lining that up, I think, let's let's have a chitchat. So you have I mean, obviously, with your, just from today, listening to Microsoft, how have you you know, what what would have been your key takeaway from that, and what were you able to learn from the team?

I guess my key takeaway was how important leadership and workplace culture is to supporting neurodiversity in the workplace, but also encouraging people to show up as their true and best selves at work. And you really do need the psychological safety to be able to do that. And and that's, you know, a that's not achieved overnight in any organization. So we do have a role to play there, at ADHD Australia. Okay.

Yes. So we have your presentation up.

Perfect.

So you're just gonna need to sing out to me for next slide, please. Thank you.

Sorry for giving you more work to do, Christie. Okay. Let's let's roll. We've got a little bit to get through. Okay. So if I could just go to sorry. Back to the first slide. Apologies, Christie. Just back to the first slide. I just want to explain the image there. So my for me, in advocating for disability, but also people with with ADHD and other neurodiverse conditions. It's about how they're seen and also how the law talks about disability. So my daughter actually drew this earlier in the year, and that is how she sees my son who has been diagnosed with ADHD. He was diagnosed at five years old after a long investigation into autism and and other and other neurological issues. But but, essentially, with that picture.

What what that is saying to me is she sees him as a blur of of, you know, hyperactivity, and this is how she explained it to me. She said, I I really I love him. I absolutely love him, but sometimes he he can be a little bit much, which which I I appreciate. But the but the I guess the situation is is how we see others. We need to challenge ourselves on that. We really, really do. And that's why I have titled this a legal complaint is too late because what I've taken out of looking at the disability royal commission is there's been a an increase in complaints in discrimination in employment, so which I'll take you through in a later slide. So we'll just go to the next. Next slide. So I'm not going to bore everybody, and you'll be.

Really grateful, I'm sure, to know that about the the legalities and the the technical, legal side. I will briefly touch on the legal framework because, certainly, there were some really powerful recommendations that came out of the Royal Commission about recommending reforms to the anti discrimination framework in Australia because it is quite complex. It's very confusing. There's a raft of, avenues and laws and trying to to assist a advocacy client in determining which way they should go is is a really, really difficult thing. It's on one hand, it's really great. We have the protections there. On the other, you you really, really don't want to end up in a space where you're you're making a legal complaint.

And if people or or as an employer, you're on the receiving end of that complaint because certainly neurodiversity is is higher on the organization agenda as it should be as with any other social responsibility goals. And so it's really, really important from a brand perspective that that that is, you know, top of mind for the organization, and they're making sure that their practices, which look. Let let's face it. They're they're neurotypical. Not everybody can roll with those practices. So I'll give some insights into some some advocacy cases I've recently worked on. And then I've I've called it why we need to stop sleepwalking through life. So this is all about prevention.

Reacting only gets us so far. So proactive removal of discrimination from our workplaces will get us a lot further. I really do see if someone is is having to make a legal complaint, I do appreciate that people may need to to do that. If they do need to do that, that it's kind of like the the ambulance down the bottom of the cliff for that person in terms of getting them the help that they need. And and the damage has already been done. So this was something my son said to me. My brain was too busy being awesome, which I absolutely loved his reframe. And I'm hoping to educate a little bit more the legal profession on that as well. In terms of how, ADHD is described in the legal profession, there's a lot of ableism.

They're absolutely well intentioned, but there's still quite a gap of understanding, around ADHD and other neurodiverse conditions. So let's just kick off really briefly into the legal framework. Thanks, Christie. Okay. So we've got, a couple of stats here. Nearly half so forty five point two percent of all employed people with disability reported that they had experienced unfair treatment or discrimination due to their disability from their employer in the past twelve months. So that was from, recent Australian Bureau of Statistics, data, and that's quite, obviously a significant percentage of people. The other aspect I should add to that is that that is, in terms of representation in the workforce, we.

Still have a long way to go with with disability. So that's actually quite a staggering number and quite distressing when you think about, how many, people represent the disability cohort for want of a better term. So we also then had the disability royal commission. And what an amazing amazing long long long long process, but absolutely worth the wait for, the report. I guess it will now come down to to what will come out of that, and I'll touch on some of the recommendations later and what that might mean and what businesses might want to consider in terms of their practices. But but also, for for people who are are struggling or are concerned about disclosing they have ADHD.

Is there any, you know, any hope in that particular report? The the, during the hearing, there was a lot of support for a previous report that the, human rights, and equal opportunity commission released called free and equal. And that report is very scathing of the anti discrimination, law framework. It talks about a lot about, that it's confusing for both, parties, so employees and employers and businesses. And what we've gotta be really, really careful of, whilst we love to go trailblaze and change the world and make everything really fair and just, is if we make it too burdensome from a regulatory perspective, then we're going to not encourage employment of of diverse people, and we won't have the amazing, vibrant, inclusive.

And far more sparkly interesting workplaces we could if if we went down that path. So it is a little bit of a balancing act. There's some accountability, and I'll get to that a little bit later. But there's also just, I guess, a recognition that there's gotta be that trust in that relationship between the employer and employee. And the workplace culture is absolutely a key I love talking about that topic. But, anyway, but it is it is instrumental. It's not just something you say. That the leaders can't go around just talking about we've got a great culture. We're, you know, we're like family here. And then there's a gap in what they're actually doing. So how they're treating someone, if they're undermining.

Someone in in or belittling them in in front of others, and particularly if that person has actually, been vulnerable enough and and courageous enough to to seek help. And I've talked through some of the experiences I've had with some clients, some advocacy clients, and just some of the very bizarre and just unfortunate things that that have been said to them when when they've challenged their manager or challenged the, indeed, the organization about some of their issues. So the human rights commission reported that the highest, number of complaints is in disability discrimination, and they average over a little over 40% of the complaints that that commission received per year. Now this is only just one one.

Avenue people can take to to make a complaint. So that's actually really staggering, because the significant proportion of those relate to employment. And I'm not in terms of the purpose of this talk because this would go on for hours if I was trying to touch on the my other passion areas being education, and and other areas, but I need to to keep it to the workplace, for now. But I just wanted to go through a couple of those stats. So if we just go to the next slide. Thanks, Christy. I owe you. We're a great team here at ADHD Australia. Okay. This is what the I understand the legal framework would feel like to disability advocacy clients of mine. So a recent lady described it as absolute.

Mind, and I won't say the the expletive, but you can complete that. But, essentially, she just had her mind was racing with all of the different, laws. And on one hand, she was grateful that there's there's some protection. But but on the other, it was very confusing to her about, well, hang on. Which which way do I go here? This is actually quite confusing and costly. It's very it's, most of these matters, if they're not resolved, at mediation will end up in court. So instituting court proceedings is an extremely prohibitive factor. I don't think we're seeing all the data that that we could, and that was acknowledged in the royal commission. But certainly a lot of things are resolved in a in a private conference or or mediation.

And, look, and to be perfectly frank, that that is if that's the outcome that the individual wants, a lot of the time, the people I represent, they they don't want to be in a place where they're making a legal complaint. They just wanted to to give their best at work, and they wanted to show up as as their best and and be accepted for who they are or okay. I might need help. I might I might need a little bit of help meeting your expectations. I cannot be in the office five days a week. I cannot focus in an open plan office, for example, and then having that all of those requests trampled on. So the other piece I just wanted to share to.

This was discussed at length in the disability royal commission, is article 27 of the convention of the rights, human rights with disabilities. It recognizes the rights of persons with disabilities to work on an equal basis with others. And this actually really does inform a lot of our current legal framework. So this convention that the the eye basically, the philosophy of philosophy of it, what it is trying to achieve informs all the all of the laws that you you'd see there. Okay. I'll just move to the next slide, if I could. Just being conscious of the time. Okay. A couple of insights. Now this is not representative of all employers. There's been some really, really good, sensible, fantastic I mean, as we heard from Microsoft earlier.

The session I moderated today, that that is just a that's a really, really feel good story of an employee who disclosed their ADHD and was supported by their manager. So we must and can do better. Here are just some things that I've overheard during, supporting people with with the particular matters. How does he have a disability? You can't even see it. How can you manage something you can't see? So that was an excuse from a company not to do anything. Basically, when the person had requested some some accommodations and adjustments. And that and people don't always do that. When will she overcome her ADHD? Surely, there is a responsibility on her to cure it. If we could just get a time frame on that was another unfortunate thing.

I overheard. But, look, all of this doesn't dishearten me. It just fires me up more to make sure that education and awareness are out there. Because I don't believe people deliberately intend to be an a hole and say these things. I think there's a lot of, confusion. We obviously need to give clarity, about this, and and and we have been, and it is getting better. However, on the advocacy side of things, you've gotta appreciate I see people at their worst and both parties. So I see the employee at their worst, and I'm seeing the company, probably not in in the best light they would like. So the other one I hear is, yes. She told me she was diagnosed with ADHD. She never asked for help. That's on her, not me. We're like a family.

She just had to ask. Why didn't she ask? And that probably is a big frustration of some companies that I do here that you know? Why didn't they spell it out to me? But there's a thing called a medical fitness for work, obviously, working collaborative collaboratively with the person. The best person to, tell the employer that is actually the treating, psychologist or doctor who's diagnosed the the ADHD. Apologies, my voice. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD, so I know exactly what he was going through. He should be damn grateful to to have me as a boss. Like, you know, because I get it. But as we've said before, you know one person with ADHD, it doesn't mean you know every single person. That's just one person with ADHD.

And the labels of high functioning, low functioning, severe are not helpful. They're not helpful at all. Okay. Thank you, Christie. You'll be relieved to know I'm nearly there. Wasn't really too. Okay. Alright. So so key insights. And I'm not saying you have to read those two documents, but they are well worth a read. The executive summary is very important from the royal commission. The other document, is more to do with so it's a very targeted document with some recommendations around housing, education, and employment. So we need to focus on prevention. And this is where I come back to a legal complaint really is too late, and our anti discrimination laws are outdated. They're very difficult to use.

And there's significant barriers to inclusion. And and part of that's just recognizing what those are. And some of that could be just even the open plan office or we need everybody in the office, which is a bit interesting given the hybrid space we've moved to, but I appreciate every organization is different. And we need to increase the pathways and opportunities for people with a disability to access the employment that they wish and not just a job, a good job came out of the commission. Okay. So in terms of law reform, really briefly, the Fair Work Act does have a definition of disability discrimination. However, it differs from the disability discrimination act. So there there is a suggestion that it it really should just.

Not be so confusing and and and let let's align with with that particular legislation And make sure it is it it it's consistent. The other is to amend the Disability Discrimination Act. Now some of the, sorry, witnesses in this matter did actually encourage a positive duty to, prevent discrimination across all of the raft of laws that didn't quite happen. But the Victorian Equal Opportunity Act does actually have a positive duty within us and, does outlaw vilification. But in terms of the disability discrimination act, that.

Reasonable adjustments are at the forefront of employers' minds. So that they're they're giving consideration to them. They're consulting on them with the employee and prefer preferably someone who who has more of a medical opinion than than the employer. And finally sorry. The Fair Work Ombudsman. So they do have a role already, but it's not well known. So people can make a complaint, but they're not very resourced to to deal with that. So what the recommendation is is that their powers, sorry, to enforce the law are are looked into or or sorry. Boosted. I'm very apologetic about my voice. Okay.

So, Nicole, knowing that slow. Your voice is are you there? Knowing that your voice is failing just a little bit, we've only got a couple more minutes to go. Maybe it'd be a good segue just to it up. Just to try and understand what you know, as you as you know and as part of the reason for you coming on board today was absolutely dispelling some of the some of the rigmarole around the legislation and trying to make it a little bit more relatable for everyone on the call today and on the stream. Is there is there something that from a takeaway point of view, the one thing that you would give to our audience today, what what would that be?

I I think just really is to keep an open mind and be curious, create a safe culture, and and just make sure people are supported to to to ask, to to to disclose, and ask for what they need, but also appreciate they may not know what they need because they're still figuring it out. But our work we what we want to do is we wanna make sure that we are supporting businesses to create healthy workplace cultures and and make sure it's not ending up in such a ugly state.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, part of your insight on the team of ADHD Australia is everything that you take, and have experienced in your coaching realm and then obviously from your legal background. How are you applying that within the corporate workplace program that you're developing?

So so I guess my insights are about best practice prevention. So we that's why I say the urgency around being proactive is really, really important. And and that's how and that's how it is shaping that particular program. I am really, really, really excited for the ADHD and neurodiverse community when that is released because.

We're we're not gonna get anywhere if we don't work together on this. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, and harking back to, you know, everybody that we've heard today are coming up with these absolute golden nuggets of insight. And I think, you know, from equity to trailblazing to accommodations to growth mindset. But I think my new favorite alignment here is my brain was too busy being awesome. I think, you know, from a from a relatable standpoint, especially with my, son as well, absolutely, that rings so true. You must be so very proud of your little one.

And he is my why at the end of the day. He really, really is.

Yeah. And so in terms of, I guess, obviously, you work out in the field, and, like, the the best and worst parts of ADHD, and I am asking our panelists to to and our, delegates for the answer to this question. The worst and best part, starting with the worst and come ending on the high note of the best or the the happiest piece around ADHD.

I think the worst part is I'm sorry. Satisfying? It's because sadness is a little bit more. The gaslighting. Right. The best part is understanding. When you and you do you feel like you've been you know, I'm part of a visiting, you know, community here. I've got some superpowers. This is great. And just clarity. Finally, things make sense. They fall into place.

Absolutely. Oh gosh. Well, again, thank you so much for coming back and presenting your wonderful insights in this way, and and shining a light, I think, for everyone on the stream in and around. Pardon?

Apologies about the voice.

Oh, sorry. Yeah. That's so fine. I'll I'll we'll run this home. Gosh. Again, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Bye, Nicole.