Welcome. Welcome to hour fourteen of the Global ADHD Conference. The first in the world. We're up to hour fourteen. If you've joined us since 1AM New Zealand time, you only have ten hours to go. I believe in you. This is a fantastic section because we're gonna talk about coaching and counseling and how it works. Now keeping with the theme of global conferences, we have Anna on down on the bottom, and she's in The United States. Alex, who is in The UK where it's, I believe, 3AM, and he hasn't had much sleep due to a sick daughter. And behind the scenes, our producer is in London, and I'm in Auckland, New Zealand. So thank you so much, both of you, for coming along. Before we introduce this little segment, There's a little disclaimer.

The views, information, opinions expressed during this panel discussion are solely those of the individual involved and not intended to represent the views of ADHD New Zealand as employees and volunteers. We're not ADHD New Zealand is not responsible and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information discussed. The primary purpose of this panel discussion with these esteemed people is to educate, inform, and understand coaching and counseling. It does not constitute medical advice or professional advice. And we also ask because this has happened a couple of times that you don't ask any personal questions about yourself or a loved one that might be able to identify you. We won't ask them, but, might save you some, hassle there.

So before we start, I think this is a really good opportunity for our fantastic panelists to introduce himself, and I'll start with you, Anna. Anna, who are you? And you're on mute.

I'll start with this Maori or or but please bear with me. It's my my Maori is not so good since I've been in The States for six years. So Seattle, Beehive Health. So So what I've just said is my name oh, sorry, is my New Zealand is my home. I live in Seattle. I'm a director and a counselor, in brackets, a coach at Beehive Health, a New Zealand company, but I also work privately in The States or in Seattle in the Seattle area, and my name is Anna Regrave. And before I go any further, I just wanna throw something in here, give you a little bit of more of a break, Alex. I'd like to add a couple of things. First of all, for all the Americans who end up watching this, I'd like to add that New Zealanders often call ourselves kiwis.

And you might have heard it through the last section. Now we're not named after a hairy fruit that's green in the middle, but a flightless bird, and it's absolutely polite. And in fact, it'll earn you brownie points if you call us a kiwi. And kiwis, when you're in The US, don't call you just call yourself a New Zealander. Otherwise, many Americans will just think you're calling yourself a hairy fruit. I'd also sometimes I think I've been watching this. We all need a bit of a laugh. Right? And I like to laugh. I'd also like to share that I have an interesting and curious mind. I'm I segue a lot, which if you hear any of my meetings, happens a lot. I'm prone to interruption. Sorry. Haven't quite worked through that properly with my ADHD.

Oh, and I'm a living embodiment of an adult woman with combined type ADHD. But like everyone, I'm unique and individual in my way. I'm not defined by ADHD. It just adds to my mix. I also have brown hair. I have funny toes, true. I have one heck of a sense of humor. I'm a painfully slow reader, and I love to listen and chat. I've experienced real personal and vocational struggles in my life as well as some incredible successes. I love the outdoors, mountain biking and hiking, including by the sorry. Mountain biking and hiking, which I meant to say, by the way, is actually known as tramping in New Zealand. Bend your minds around that world. Over to you, Darren.

Thank you, Anna. Thank you very much. Alex, you can do this, mate. How are you?

Okay. Bear with me. I'm gonna try a bit of Maori. Tanakoto. Tanakoto. Tanakoto. Katar. Kia ora. I'm Alex. I am tuning in from London to be with you guys today. A bit about me. So I am a ADHD coach, and I'm also a registered BACP, which is the British Association of Counsellors and Psychotherapists Therapists. I'm a mental health first aid instructor for MHFA England, hoping to also be in Aotearoa next year. I credit myself there. And I work with mainly adults late in diagnosis who within therapy or coaching. And a little bit more about me, another cool fact. I was one of the first 40 people to be diagnosed with ADHD back in The UK in 1990. I was four years old. So I'll let you figure out how old I am from that. So yeah. And.

I have a two year old daughter who is currently upstairs not feeling well, and I moved to New Zealand. I land in New Zealand on the 01/01/2023. So I'll be with you guys in the not too distant future. Very excited to be working over there. So that's me. And it is 3AM, and my executive functioning is not online, and I am not dedicated.

Hey. Well, this should this will be fun if anything, Alex. And for those who haven't been here in the last four hours, my name's Darren. I'm the chair of ADHD New Zealand. I have two ADHD children and have enjoyed all the strengths and all the frustrations and have been fighting the health and education systems in Aotearoa in New Zealand for quite some time. So what we have here are three people who understand the community, and I would hate for you to miss out on the opportunity to ask some questions. So globaladhd.com is your access site. You'll be able to ask questions. And while you're there, donate some money. And ADHD New Zealand is using that donation to help drive.

The work we're doing in their primary and secondary schools of New Zealand. So, Anna, I'm going to ask this question first of you because it's really simple, isn't it? What is coaching?

Yep. So I kinda had to look it up a little bit just so I could sort of explain it. Because my executive functioning is going, what is coaching? So first of all, I wanna explain that, like Alex, I am actually a trained counselor. But I I work with coaching as well as counseling in my practice, so I intertwine them both. But if we're looking at pure coaching, I personally see it as steps towards moving forward. It's more present and future oriented, and it's people it's helping people achieve specific goals. Coaching counseling can be as well. Generally, I suspect for shorter periods of time, it might be a little bit more directive. But there's a big crossover of coaching, as it can feel therapeutic.

And have accounts and be counseling generative. So that's my perspective.

And, Alex?

What's coaching in your view? I have a little analogy because I like an analogy, which is, you know, your your car has broken down, and the therapist kinda helps you figure out by looking back, like, why did it break down? Like, what happened before the breakdown? You know? To figure out. Whereas the coach is going, alright. So you've broken down. You've now figured out there's some things you need to do to move forward. So I'm gonna help get this car back on the road. And we're gonna look at what's gonna get in the way of that and how we're gonna get there. So like what Anna said, it's a bit more future focused. But I wanna caveat, and Anna's already alluded to this, the professions crossover a lot. And.

Both Anna and I are in a position where we're definitely straddling these two hats. And depending on who you speak to, you will get different answers. But I think there is a general sense that in coaching, you don't tend to look back. You tend to think about how are we gonna progress forwards. And that isn't always the focus for therapy. The other thing I would say is if you're a therapist and you're a mental health practitioner, and so therefore, you're often working with mental health issues. Whereas, I think with coaching, you're not a mental health practitioner. Right? And I think there's a different there is an import there's a potent differentiator about about mental health concerns, conditions.

However because depending on the country that you're in, there are different legalities around that and different jurisdictions. So if someone is acutely suicidal, then a therapist is someone placed to support that person. A coach is not. That isn't within any of the coaching training that I'm aware of. And most coaching training that I have done has taken quite a hard line on when it comes to things like, you know, things like suicide. That that is the remit of of some within a clinical medical profession.

Mhmm. And I see you nodding vigorously. You're obviously in agreement?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I am sorry. Counseling, I really feel helps can really help people to look at often, say, with coaching, people might get stuck and that kind of thing. And I think counseling can be there as well. I know coaching can help with this as well to help you sort of work out why you're stuck and help you move forward. But, yes, from counseling, very much, we trained. I'm trained, and we we in America and in New Zealand, I have to keep up my understanding of of pure of mental health. Both of my registrations are included with it. I suspect Alex would be as well. And there's a there is an ongoing.

Especially in The States, an understanding of suicide and changes and things like that that happen with it. So, yeah, there's a real focus on mental health counseling. Nicely put, Alex, and wish I'd come up with that myself. Yeah.

That's a nice description. So I'm gonna show my ignorance a little bit here. What happens if you're coaching a client and it starts to drift to a mental health issue? Because there'll be those who are coaches watching this or who wanna be coaches, and they might want to think about something. How do you deal with that? And Anna, we'll start with you this time.

It's a difficult question for me to answer personally because I am a counselor. I'm a trained counselor, and I know that Alex is as well. However, if you were a coach, I would or anyone who's in this position or in that position, all countries all countries that are involved with this that I know sorry. Britain, New Zealand, and America have, first of all, online services. Yeah. Phone call services, online services. But you can seek out and speak to professionals and ask what to do. But suicidality and that kind of thing really needs to be taken care of. You cannot fix somebody. You cannot save somebody. And it is it is up to a professional to.

And it's not your responsibility to take that on board. It's give it to a professional, and they can manage that sort of thing. So, yeah, if you get into a difficult position, the problem is is that professionals are really hard to come by at the moment. But I can't say that you'd be able to you'd be able to reach out to multiple people and say, look, I've got a client who's experiencing this difficulty. Can you help me out? Or get onto the online service and that sort of thing. Pass them on to and have a look online.

Yeah. Which I think is a good segue into the next question about what isn't coaching. So we know that it's not past focus. We know it's not a psychologist or psychiatrist. What else isn't it? And this is really to help people to know what to expect. Alex, I'll I'll throw that your way.

Sorry. I'm having some real problems with my Wi Fi Internet here. Can you guys hear me okay?

Yeah. We can. Yep. Great. Darren, can you just ask the question again?

Because you cut off halfway through the question.

I was just asking what isn't coaching. So we we know it's not looking backwards. We know it's not a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Is that about covers it, or is it something else that it's not?

What isn't coaching? Yeah. Coaching is not about tips and tricks. Yeah. I think that a lot of people look at ADHD coaches in particular as being sort of the font of all knowledge and we just share our golden wisdom and they'll be they'll be fine. You know? Right. And that's not that I know. Sorry. Spoiler alert. But that that is not the case. And act and this is the thing, right, about ADHD. We have these I call them fast brains. It doesn't necessarily mean that we can, like, think faster, but that we can think differently. And that often means that we're frustrate we're frustrated. And so we want, like, we want quick fixes and quick answers, and we wanna kinda get on. And that's great. But also, we need to slow down.

And we need to take some time over things. And Mhmm. You know, for a lot of clients that I've worked with, it's they're kind of surprised at the frustration sometimes that comes up when they start with a coach because it's this process that they're going through in understanding. I would say a lot of coaching is a lot about understanding who they are, you know, as opposed to just, I'm coming to you so I can get organized. You know? It's it's like this thing where I'm not here to try and make you neurotypical. That's not my job. Yeah. Here is to help impact my here is job here is to help empower you to be the best that you can be as an ADHDer. Yeah. You know? That was a very long answer.

No. I'm laughing.

Go ahead, Anna. I wanna just add when I just to extend from that, and you just said the word empowerment. Our job, even as a counselor, is not to fix you or to do the work for you. Right? Our job or that approach is controlling, and it disempowers people. It takes away people's power. Our job is to empower people to give you agency. And we only see you maybe for one hour, half an hour, or one hour a week, or every two weeks, and that's not a lot of time. Every person who comes to see someone has to go away for the rest. I was gonna try and count calculate 24 times seven, but my brain's not that fast today. And you've.

Has to go away and do the work, but Alex also touched on something that I absolutely believe. We want the answers now, even I still do, But it really I really believe in focusing on small changes one thing at a time and really putting that time and focus in there to really growing proper good outcomes.

Yeah. And, Alex, I wasn't laughing at what you're saying. I was I was laughing at a friend in New Zealand who has ADHD, and he thought he saw a coach. And one of his issues is disorganization, and effectively, he left with Outlook and a template for Outlook. And so I asked him after three weeks when he came and saw me as a friend, not anything else. So how's it working out? And he goes, now I'm just disorganized with Outlook. But that's and if anything, Outlook may have made it worse because he now had to allow time to use Outlook. And, you know, Outlook's a good tool. Don't get me wrong. It's more to the point that he went expecting a tip and a trick and got Outlook.

And I'm sure it could work for some people, but that's not the essence of coaching.

Yeah. There was something that a coach a said to me a while ago, which I thought was quite helpful is quite often in therapy, he often do it weekly and there's a lot of work that happens within the therapy session. And coaching often isn't as long as a therapy session. It can be. But I know a lot of ADHD coaches who do, like, twenty five minute sessions because you can coach someone in twenty five minutes. Like, it's amazing how much work you can do. But quite often, the work with coaching happens in between the sessions. Ah. You know? Right? Whereas a lot of the work in therapy is happening in the session, and that has an impact on your life outside of the session. Right?

I often when I'm working with clients, we I kind of we talk about setting mini experiments that they can go and and trial and see how that works or doesn't work. And then we can Yeah. We can wrestle with it and play with it in coaching. You know? And because they're the ones discovering what works for them. I'm just someone who is informed as an ADHDer about how the brain works and how the ADHD mind works in order to be someone that is empathic and supportive and affirming in terms of Yeah. Helping facilitate that that process that they're undertaking.

Yeah. A good description. And I wonder if my friend's experience perhaps speaks to the immaturity of coaching for ADHD and coaching full stop in New Zealand. Because when you talk a multimodal approach to ADHD, you know, it starts with prescriptions, so that might end with eating the right foods and exercising. But coaching's really there. And, Anna, you know New Zealand well. Well, how would you describe the New Zealand approach to coaching?

That question is how would I how would I describe the New Zealand approach to counseling? I kind of have thought about this question before, but more in the more from a New Zealand versus US perspective. First of all, The US has this massive diverse population, 330,000,000 people. So you're going to have more people to get services from. Plus Yeah. Here in The States, everyone there's some really negative ideas about ADHD in The States, and there's some really negative ideas about Americans and the way they function. It's very generalized, and that's and a lot of it's very incorrect. It isn't easy to go and it's to go and get medication. There is a real process to go through it depending on what state you're in and that kind of thing. But.

When you talk about coaching in New Zealand versus the states, the reason I talk about the states is because there's a lot less stigma here about ADHD. There's a lot less stigma about getting self help, getting counseling, and getting coaching. And over here, you do need health insurance. So one of the negatives is that you can't really survive without it. But you but but often, health insurance covers counseling and coaching here in The States to some degree. Yes. So it's it's seen as a health concern. Yep. Whereas a lot of New Zealanders have to pay for it out of pocket, and you're lucky if your insurance company covers it. There's no preexisting conditions allowed here in The States, so they can't take that away.

So this so there's a lot less stigma around getting support, and there's a lot less stigma around ADHD. So I have a lot of people in these states when I don't I don't like, people and I've got brown hair, and I kind of I don't go and tell people or not tell people that I've got ADHD. If it comes up, it comes up. Right? But I have a lot of adults, you know, bounce around, and they're like, yeah. I've got ADHD. Know, I had my sixties I think my 60 year old landlord pop up one day, he's like, yeah. I've got ADHD, and I've had lots more people just share it with me. Because there's been this longer term health care thing, there's been this acceptance of getting mental health and and just extra support just to live and reach your goals.

Because there's this many more people, then there's a lot then there's been a lot greater emphasis on getting on on people training to get support. So in that in in this instance, The States is ahead Yeah. On what we are doing in New Zealand, but I'm starting to see a real fervor in New Zealand from people wanting to get experience. And the problem is, how do we do it? You know? And and I know how do we get decent coaching? The other thing is here in The States, in order for health care companies to pay for it, you have to be registered. You and that means there's there's a training process, and there's an ongoing registration process with it, an ongoing certification process with it. Whereas in New Zealand.

At the moment, anyone can call themselves a coach or a counselor and and not have had a lot of extra training in there. So so that's something I'd always say is really look at people's at their credentials to see what they've trained. And when you go to see a coach, ask about it. But, yeah, that's some of the I've got lots more different things about what's about coaching in New Zealand, but I I think that it's just in its infancy, and there's a lot more work to be done.

And and and before I ask you the same question, Alex, about The UK, there's it feels like there's hardly any coaches in New Zealand. Mhmm. Would you agree? Yep. Yeah. And just to do a plug for your business, this is one of the reasons you set up Beehive, isn't it?

Yes. So I I sort of had an online or a telehealth idea in my head for a few years, and then COVID happened, and there were some other companies doing that sort of thing. And I just sort of I should explain. I've lived in San Francisco, and now I live here. I'm surrounded by tech, t e c h, not t I c k, but tech engineers, our our New Zealand accent Yeah. Comes across quite interesting. And I and I and I knew that different things could be done or we could think about the world and mental health or what not health, but support differently. So, yeah, I wanted to and I was getting so many inquiries for people wanting support with ADHD that it was starting to be to be painful.

To open each email and to look at it. Yep. So I went Yeah. Alright. What can I do? I'll set up a I'll set up a an online telehealth service so we can reach people throughout New Zealand and offer them a variety of services based on what they want and what they need, and let them lead and understand what's right for them. So it's in its infancy. We are trying to grow, and and that's, yeah, that's where the business is sort of aimed, I think. I don't know if I covered it all.

But thank you. I think you have. And I think one of the mindset changes New Zealanders need to get through is a psychologist and psychiatrist are important. Let's ignore the fact that they're largely inaccessible on a quick basis in New Zealand. They are important, but a coach can offer different things, and this is gonna change some of your mindset. Now before we go on, ladies and gentlemen out there in YouTube, we are aware that there has been a technical hitch and that you may have missed some of that introduction. So what we have here is Anna Redgrave. She's a coach and a counselor based in Seattle. She also runs beehive dot health, which is available in New Zealand. And down below.

On screen, but not in real life, is Alex who's also a a coach and also right now 3AM in London. And Anna, it must be about 09:30, 08:30 in Seattle as well. 07:30. 07:30. That's why we can never talk. What we have spent the last twenty minutes talking about is exactly what is coaching. This video will be available after the conference if you wanna see the front part, but we will keep going. So sorry for the technical issues. And also globaladhd.com is where you can go to donate some money and ask any questions, and we wanna see those questions come through. I have to admit, as as often the case in conferences.

Ten minutes to go, that's when we got all the questions. So right now, there is one question that's just come through, so let's send it let's send it through. Now Alex and poor Alex is not only up at 3AM in the morning. He has also been dealing with his sick daughter, so we really appreciate you being here. And I feel a little guilty as well. But the question I have for you is I'm really interested in understanding what coaching looks like in The UK because also you seem quite advanced when you say compared to New Zealand.

So there is there is a real diversity of coaching in The UK. I mean, there's a there's a lot of us. You know, there were 65,000,000, people, and ADHD coaching is a growing profession, I'd say, in The UK. It falls under the category of life coaching, a form, like a subcategory of life coaching. And so there are a few academies that provide ADHD specific coaching training that's accredited by the ICF. That's the International Coaching Federation. It's kinda like the main global governing body for the coaching profession, and it was the first governing body to really establish coaching as a kind of profession in its own right as separate to counseling therapy. So but all of the training academies are based in North America. And so.

And it's online training. It's great training, but it's limited. And so you have to bear in mind that when people say they're an ADHD coach, technically, coaching isn't a protector category even though we have, like, the ICF, technically, anybody could. So just harking back to what Anna said, when I say to people that they're looking for an ADHD coach, I feel like when you're going to a coach, you're also going because you're looking at that person in particular. Yeah. Like, they have a whole life experience. Like, is it is this maybe if you coach who's been in middle management their whole life? Or have they been in c suite? Or have they maybe they're a working mom. You know, like.

I think that so often the experience of that coach has in life as a fellow ADHD because let's face it, almost every ADHD coach has ADHD themselves. Yeah. I don't know any coaches who call themselves ADHD coaches who don't have ADHD. And that's a really important part of this, that you get to be with someone who understands, who's living it. Yeah. So I'd say The UK is fairly advanced in that respect. Yeah. But it's still growing, you know. I think still people are I think people are still trying to get their head around, like, what's the difference between say ADHD coaching and leadership coaching. I think it's still one of these things that it's not it's not clearly defined.

Yeah. I agree. Anna, you're nodding. Yep. I can I nod? I'm trying really hard not to interrupt, so I it's one of my specialties. You're doing good. You're doing good. I'm so excited. I just wanna input stuff. Two things that I wanted to add. First of all, in not just in coaching, but also in counseling, even in clinical psychology and psychiatry, there's actually in most of the medical and helping professions, there's actually very little training with ADHD. So a lot of it is is is people working it out as they go. I have I it's really interesting to do this with ADHD UK. They don't know, but I have actually done some of their trainings in the past with.

Some of their online trainings that I participated in during COVID just to find out extra information, you know, just seeking out bits and pieces. So so that is one of the things. I think someone who has a really good coaching approaches or a counseling approach is really important, but also, as Alex said, that life experience. But I also wanted to add this about when you find when you seek out a coach or a counselor or anyone, really, anyone, and that is find someone you can work with. You don't have to like them, but it's someone who doesn't bring out the shame in someone with ADHD. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yep. If I can get to one of the root words root causes of problems that I feel, you know, right underneath all of it is shame.

And Yeah. It's it's it's good to have someone who might challenge you or push you a little bit, but but people can do that without bringing out the shame. So Yeah. It's really important that they clearly understand your goals and tailor their work to you rather than you fitting into their mold. That's what I think. That's my personal perspective. And expect to work. You know? Expect to put in the work. There is work in between. But the main thing is shop around. You know, if you can, if you have the option to shop around, do it and speak to different people. Now here in The US, I get interviewed by my clients.

And I'd like to say that most of them pick me as their employer, but or as not their employer, but as their counselor or coach, so, know, gay for me. But Yeah. But talk to different people and and and really, yeah, get away from that shame thing. And that's anywhere, New Zealand, The US, The UK, South Africa, anywhere Australia.

Nicely said. And you have a phrase that has stuck with me ever since we have started talking, Anna, is that we see you. Alright. Do you wanna explain what that means?

We see you I think a real goal for my for the business Beehive, it's by Beehive with a y, by the way, but is we meet you where you're we meet you where you're at. And that's really important because some people say, don't tell me I actually met Darren eight or nine years ago. And when I first met him, he got up and he told me what what ADHD NZ does, and that's said and, Darren, I hope that it's okay for me to say this. But Darren said, we're here to support people who suffer from ADHD, and I nearly walked out of the room. And I said, don't you tell me I suffer. Let me make decisions about what's going on for me. Now Yep. That means some people are have are owning it, getting on with it.

Whatever processes I've worked through, they may have had bad things happen in their life or not. Some people are owning it. Some people are just stuck. You know, they're sort of in the middle and the they're sort of halfway there. Their life is just sort of you know, with ADHD, it's just sort of puddling along, and then these mistakes keep happening. A divorce or they lose their job, and they keep functioning just. And there's other people who are really struggling, really, really struggling with ADHD, really and and the the coexisting other things that go on with it. You know, there's drug and alcohol issues. There's there's arguing. There's all sorts of, you know, really upsetting things that really happen in people's lives.

And I really believe that a coach or a counselor or whoever you a clinical psychologist, whoever you work with, can meet you where you're at and make you feel helped and can help you work towards your goals at a pace that works for you. Maybe not the pace you want it to be, but the pace that works for you. Mhmm.

Taking it back to that's change happens in small bits. Yeah. Nicely said. And look, I've had a question which I can answer is where can you get in contact with coaches in New Zealand? So adhd.org.nz, on its website, it does have some coaches, including Beehive. And we're very careful who we put up there for two reasons. Just because you have ADHD, some people think if they have ADHD, they could be a coach. We do believe that there is some training, and we also seek look to see if there's the sort of person who, you know, can connect with people with ADHD as well. Picking up on other comments, it is a market that is in its infancy in New Zealand, and it needs to grow. So you won't find many people there, unfortunately. Alex.

Going back to you, because I saw you nodding.

Oh, sorry, Anna? No. Alex had a question.

I was I was I was I was gonna I was gonna do an an exclusive. So just about to launch an ICF accredited ADHD foundation training for coaches and therapists, which we're doing a pilot start this month. And then we will launch it in February, will be run from New Zealand and The UK for coaches and therapists. So we're we're starting something that is really needed, more training, really, effective training. But our training is from the perspective of the lived experience in combination with the neuroscience with the neuroscience. So, anyway, just to say yeah. That's for anyone. I.

Wanna say that about a lot of the ADHD training that I've heard, it's very DSM focused. This is what ADHD this is this. This is this. This is this. But it doesn't include all the other stuff that goes on with ADHD that's outside the DSM, does it, Alex?

Exactly. And in fact, that's one of the things that we talk a lot about in our course, And it still amazes me because of all the research that we know about ADHD. Emotional dysregulation is a is a real key element to ADHD. And this is something that isn't part of the diagnostics for ADHD, and yet it is a universal experience of every ADHD that I've ever met. So yeah.

Alex, just if you wouldn't mind continuing to do the plug for the course because that's a giant step forward. It's just being selfish here in New Zealand. That is a giant step forward. Tell me what are the sort of things you cover?

Yeah. So, it's been interesting because I'm it's a cocreated course with another amazing ADHD coach who comes from an education background. She's a she's a much more advanced coach than I am, a brilliant coach, called Katie Friedman. And the course is eight weeks, and it's twenty hours accredited hours of training. And we follow doctor Thomas Brown, who is one of the key kind of figureheads in the world of ADHD in terms of research. And he created a model of executive functions, the which is the part of this part of our brain, like the the brain's management system that this this is the part of what we know from from neuroscience that we really struggle with with our executive functioning, our ability to manage tasks.

And so we take his model, and we use that as a structure on which to understand and discuss all of the paradoxes of ADHD. We understand there's a concept called situational variability, which is this idea that, you know, there can be different situations and different we can be brilliant in certain environments, and we can really struggle in other environments, and yet it might be a similar task. Yeah. And so this is where there's a lot of shame and stigma that comes in with ADHD because there's things that don't make sense unless you have this, what we call the ADHD lens, where you start to see ADHD in a new light. And so the course is helping people to understand this. Because a lot of what people know about ADHD is from the media.

Or from hearsay. It's about badly behaved boys, which is amazing that people still hold a few because it's so archaic. It's so early nineties. And yet people still do, you know. Yeah. And so this is really helping people understand this from a lived experience perspective. Yeah.

Fantastic. And how will people find the course to enroll?

That's a really good question because the pilot is just about to begin with 10 delegates who were very kind enough at the time to help us. So what I would say is we'll it'll you'd be able to access it probably via the ADHD UK and NZ websites. That would probably it'll be up be on there. So I'd say watch the space, but we'll be launching in February.

And clearly, you have some interest because how much is the course? Or or should we wait to.

Oh, the the price. I I we actually we're still just trying to make sure that the course is cohesive and makes sense Yeah. Because it's too ADHDers trying to create a course, and we, as you may have learned from this discussion between Anna and I, there's so much to talk about, and we have and we have so much interest in this topic that Yeah. So we're we're in the final stages of getting it accredited by the ICF. So yeah. But I'd say watch the space and check out the websites. Yeah.

And for those in New Zealand, watch the ADHD New Zealand website and in the and also ADHD UK website as well. So congratulations on doing that. Clearly, sorely needed. Hey. I wanna just move into this the role of coaching as a multimodal delivery because it to be fair, it does seem The UK and The US is more advanced than New Zealand. You know, to me, as a parent and somebody who works with ADHD in New Zealand, it's very much see a specialist, get some medication, then there's a gap, and then you might look at more exercise or the what you eat. So coaching can play a role in that approach and sort of that multimodal delivery. And and I'm gonna head to you first and see and sort of hear about how it could fit into everything else.

Well, I kind of I've had conversations with other people in the in this arena in New Zealand and have thought a bit about this, but I think it's somewhere in the credits for this group. But if one in twenty members of the population has ADHD, in diagnosing and managing this diversity should be more broadly available and understood by those in the helping professions. At the moment, psychiatry, even in in the in in Britain, just getting an appointment to get an assessment, to get meds just is impossible. I believe it's three years in the in in in The UK?

Yeah. If you go by the NHS traditional route, it's anything up to, like, three to four years at the moment.

And in New Zealand I'll stop complaining.

In six to nine months.

What in New Zealand, what was the DHBs? Only one or two of them actually did anything about it, and the rest of them brutally weren't able to work with people with ADHD. So but a multimodal process. The problem is so much focus is or focus. Medications is put on medications to fix ADHD, and they do not fix ADHD. They absolutely help, and they may improve focus. And it can and medications can really support people to implement change into their life, but it's not a magic pill. As we grow through life, we learn habits. You know? We might use eating for stimming, or we might use it for masking, or we might use it to keep ourselves busy and get that dopamine going.

But we also learn then to eat. You know? We can train our bodies very quickly when to sleep and when not to sleep, when to eat, when not to eat, anger, all sorts of things. So I think that medication can be helpful towards learning habits, but I think we all people, not just people with ADHD, can learn new habits, and coaching and counseling can help with that sort of thing. Coaching can, you know, really help with habits. A multimodal approach. We also learn quickly that we don't that as ADHD is we don't fit into the world's expectations of what normal is. And you see the truth as I work with clients across the board, I don't think there is a normal. I think there's.

I think everyone has their diverse diverse way of being, whether they have a diverse brain or not. But as we as we develop with within this world of expectations, we also develop behaviors that mask our tendencies. It's rude to interrupt. But when I interrupt, it's actually me getting excited and being a part of the conversation. I wanna share with you what's exciting. I don't I don't want to talk over you. I'm I'm excited. My my my the dopamine's going for me, those kind of things. So but as what happens is we get shamed into being, this is how you should act. This is what you should do. And we realize we're not quite right. So over this period, we learn negative or we learn behaviors that internally.

Can really be very negative. So a multimodal approach, medication won't take those habits, won't take those lifelong learnings away. But a multimodal approach using different resources, coaching, counseling, and other sources or therapies can help people get on and maybe learn to accept themselves. And I want to it can help us learn our strengths and our weaknesses. Everybody has them. To be kind to ourselves, to understand how to function in this world. And I wanna point this out. Hello, well, and and ADHD 2.0 says the flip side of distractibility is curiosity. The flip side of impulsivity impulsivity is creativity, and the flip side of hyperactivity is energy. Now I have the most amazing.

And lucky experience to work with some of the some tech engineers here in Seattle. Some of them one of them, an ADHDer, brilliant. If any doctor tells you that you can't go to university or if you went to university, you can't have ADHD, this person was involved highly involved with putting the Mars rover on on wherever it went, on on Mars. Another person works for one of the big gaming companies, Fortnite. Not Fortnite, but was involved in development of that game. They've moved companies. They they are hiring people. They both these people have ADHD. They're hiring other ADHDers. And they know what those ADHDers'

Strengths and weaknesses are, and they know how to support them. And in fact, they know that they might be able to start things but can't finish it. And I don't know if many people are aware of this, and I've read about it, but there are employment agencies specifically looking for us. Yeah. Looking for our interesting and curious minds. I've been in so much trouble for my mind. But recently, someone or some people have come into my life who appreciate it, and it has made a big difference to how I feel about myself and learnt me and helped me learn and realize that, actually, it's a really cool mind. You just have to just have to have the right people to harness it or to for me to harness it and work with them. Yeah.

Nicely said, Anna. And in fact, I'm gonna do a plug for our next session. If you wanna understand how neurodiversity in the workplace works and what happens when workplaces accept ADHD, join us in our next session of Google. It it is amazing. Look, we're running out of time, so I'm gonna ask both of you one final question. Or and I'll start with you, Alex. And the question is, do you love coaching and why?

You say, do I love coaching?

Yeah.

Yeah. I I tell you why I love coaching. It is this amazing opportunity for two ADHDers to connect on a very personal level. And there's a high what I call profound empathy that happens, and it's transformational. And I would say I love it because it is amazing to connect with other ADHDers. I learn from my clients, and it is amazing to see how they transform. And subsequently, I transform too. So that's why I love coaching. It's the it's the best job.

And Anna? Thank you, Alex.

I don't think I could put it much better than Alex. I've learned a lot. It's it's cool that I get to be paid to hang out with my people. And and even though I'm a counselor, I get to feel typical or normal hanging out with my clients, and we're all on journeys. So, yeah, I think it's it's just really exciting, and I love yeah. Like Alex said, hanging out with other ADHDers.

I love talking to people and and listening. And I think, you know, we're very blessed and very lucky to be able to do something well, I am to be able to do something I love. And to tell you the truth Yeah. The difference between an old life where I worked in the corporate world and this life where I work as a coach and a counselor. I get to do what I love, and I get to work with people that I really enjoy.

Yeah.

Yeah. I can see listening to both of you, Anna late on a, I guess, a Thursday night in The US, and Alex early, 3AM, nearly 4AM, how much you love us. And the fact that you love ADHD, I can see it in that you love coaching. And I can only think that the I guess the clients, the customers, if that's the right word, patience doesn't feel like it's the right word, would really just create so much energy for you as well. Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah. And I also, unfortunately, I regret running out of time because there's a few more questions that have come through, but I did tell you people out there in YouTube land to send them through quickly. So Alex and Anna, thank you so much. Thanks for streaming in. Alex, I hope you get some sleep before you.

You can, you know, your next session.

If you're still on, I'm on another panel at 9AM UK time. So Yeah. I'm gonna go to bed, and then I'm gonna get up again for that one.

Alex, take care. Right? Yeah. Look after yourself, Alex.

Yeah. I will do. And.

And for those out there watching the conference, thank you for joining us for another exciting session of the world's first global ADHD twenty four hour conference. We really appreciate you coming. I know there are technical issues at the start, and this will be available shortly for you to be able to watch the first twenty minutes, which are just as good as the last twenty minutes. So please check that out. Coming up is an introduction to neurodiversity in Google and and what they do. I also wanna just push a movie called The Disruptors, which is a movie that is everything Anna talked about. ADHD New Zealand has bought it to New Zealand. It's in the movie theater in Auckland coming up, but it's also on YouTube, and it's relatively cheap.

To purchase, and it's on Apple and Amazon if you're not in New Zealand as well. So please take the opportunity to do that. I look forward to seeing you for hour fifteen in ten minutes. And until then, have a great day. And Alex, go to go to bed, mate. Thank you, Anna.

Take care. Bye.

Bye bye.